ECT Render to Caesar: Who did the coin belong to?

elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
Mark 12:17 And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him.

Who did the coin belong to?

The Lord's point is that everything belongs to God.

Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Discuss.
 
theophilus

theophilus

Well-known member
Psalm 24
1 The earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains,
The world, and those who dwell in it.
2 For He has founded it upon the seas
And established it upon the rivers.
3 Who may ascend into the hill of the Lord?
And who may stand in His holy place?
4 He who has clean hands and a pure heart,
Who has not lifted up his soul to falsehood
And has not sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive a blessing from the Lord
And righteousness from the God of his salvation.
6 This is the generation of those who seek Him,
Who seek Your face—even Jacob. Selah.

7 Lift up your heads, O gates,
And be lifted up, O ancient doors,
That the King of glory may come in!
8 Who is the King of glory?
The Lord strong and mighty,
The Lord mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O gates,
And lift them up, O ancient doors,
That the King of glory may come in!
10 Who is this King of glory?
The Lord of hosts,
He is the King of glory. Selah.
 
6days

6days

New member
My money is MINE!
My kids are MINE!
My time is MINE!

God has given those things to me to manage for HIM! My things are ultimately all His.

But, I can't apply that logic to a 3rd party. Caesars money is his. I can't withhold from Caesar trying to rationalize that the money is really God's.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
elohiym said:
Mark 12:17 And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him.

Who did the coin belong to?

The Lord's point is that everything belongs to God.

Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Discuss.
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Ok then....

T̶h̶o̶u̶ ̶s̶h̶a̶l̶t̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶s̶t̶e̶a̶l̶.̶

One down, nine to go!
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
elohiym said:
Mark 12:17 And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him.
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Render to the secular authorities the things that are secular and to God the things that are God's.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
jamie said:
Render to the secular authorities the things that are secular and to God the things that are God's.
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Everything belongs to God, including the authorities.

Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
LoneStar said:
I give that an approving chuckle. It would be difficult to steal from someone when nothing is theirs. Same for coveting.
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Was it possible for the Lord to steal? I'm not asking if you think He did, just if you think it was possible since He does actually own everything.
 
LoneStar

LoneStar

New member
elohiym said:
Was it possible for the Lord to steal? I'm not asking if you think He did, just if you think it was possible since He does actually own everything.
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God can give or take anything. The point I trust that was being made is that if you tend to only see God as the owner of everything and man owns nothing, then man cannot be stolen from. That would make the command for a man not to steal from another man impossible.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
LoneStar said:
God can give or take anything.
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If the Lord took that coin, would it have been stealing? I'm curious to know your answer. My answer is no.

LoneStar said:
The point I trust that was being made is that if you tend to only see God as the owner of everything and man owns nothing, then man cannot be stolen from. That would make the command for a man not to steal from another man impossible.
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I'll come back to that point after you answer the question.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
ok doser said:
you think God needs money? :chuckle:
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Jesus is God, and Judas kept His money box. So chuckle away.

John 13:29 For some were supposing, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus was saying to him, "Buy the things we have need of for the feast"; or else, that he should give something to the poor.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
theophilus said:
Psalm 24
1 The earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains,
The world, and those who dwell in it.
Click to expand...

Then how could Caesar own the coin?

Whoever provided the coin to Jesus was at best the steward of God's money, and in the world's terminology "owned" the coin. Would Caesar have claimed the money that man worked for belonged to the Emperor of Rome? If yes, would he have been correct?
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
LoneStar said:
The point I trust that was being made is that if you tend to only see God as the owner of everything and man owns nothing, then man cannot be stolen from.
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When a man steals from another man he is stealing from God. See the Lord's parable that ends, "...When you did it to the least of these...you did it to me"

LoneStar said:
That would make the command for a man not to steal from another man impossible.
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If the Lord took the coin and didn't give it back, would that make the command impossible?
 
LoneStar

LoneStar

New member
elohiym said:
If the Lord took that coin, would it have been stealing? I'm curious to know your answer. My answer is no.
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If a frog had wings.

The Lord did not insist the coin was for him to pocket as his own. He did insist on who the coin was to be rendered.



I'll come back to that point after you answer the question.
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No disrespect intended, but there is no need to come back to that point. Man can steal a possession of another man.

This whole argument's foundation is not an either/or.

As Matthew 25:40 and 25:45 articulates, it was both man and God that it was done to. It wasn't an either/or.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
LoneStar said:
The Lord did not insist the coin was for him to pocket as his own. He did insist on who the coin was to be rendered.
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He did neither. You are to render the coin to the person you believe it belongs to. I assume you don't give your dollars to George Washington and probably don't think your dollar with his picture and the government's inscription belongs to someone other than you.

You said the Lord can take away. I'm asking you if it can ever be stealing when the Lord takes something away from someone?

LoneStar said:
No disrespect intended, but there is no need to come back to that point. Man can steal a possession of another man.
Click to expand...

My point is that God cannot steal from man because everything belongs to God.

If some things belong to man, what belongs to God?

How did man acquire ownership of what allegedly belongs to him?

LoneStar said:
This whole argument's foundation is not an either/or.

As Matthew 25:40 and 25:45 articulates, it was both man and God that it was done to. It wasn't an either/or.
Click to expand...

Regardless, you can't claim that it wasn't God it was done to, so you can't claim that God didn't own everything they had stewardship of.
 
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