some other dude
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:thumb:
Real Science Friday: Baraminologist Dr. Roger Sanders on RSF
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Heat especially is what I was thinking of. It moves from hot to cold. You and your fake science aptitued. When you are in a corner, you say something stupid like this.
The heat pushed some of the water into the upper atmosphere and into outerspace. And moved the continents. It took treamendous energy to do it.
The friction generated by moving entire continents at those rates would generate enough heat to boil the oceans.
All that energy would have to be released into the seas and atmosphere. Ejection of that much water at escape velocity (about seven miles a second) would incinerate the earth.
None of this can be reconciled with reality, unless you want to invent scores of new miracles.
But once you let magic solve your problems, then anything is possible.
All that energy would have to be released into the seas and atmosphere. Ejection of that much water at escape velocity (about seven miles a second) would incinerate the earth.
None of this can be reconciled with reality, unless you want to invent scores of new miracles.
But once you let magic solve your problems, then anything is possible.
some other dude
New member
Magic, like a dead man coming back to life?
Oh that's right. You don't believe in a literal resurrection. It's a "parable."
Magic, like making up non-scriptural miracles to solve problems with your ideas.
I see you haven't learned that lying isn't a Christian trait. As you know from our previous exchanges, I assert that the Resurrection is a fact. This is why you have the reputation you do, here.
Oh, that's right. You think that you can sin against God all you want, and He'll have to save you because you have "faith." Carry on.
Magic, like making up non-scriptural miracles to solve problems with your ideas.
I see you haven't learned that lying isn't a Christian trait. As you know from our previous exchanges, I assert that the Resurrection is a fact.
some other dude
New member
Interesting. Barbie's back to making double posts with mostly the same material.
Oh well. Technology can be challenging at times.
Do you think all of God's miracles are recorded in scripture?
I do apologize. I had you confused with Greenie. Sometimes it's hard to tell you two apart.
:chuckle: This, coming from Barbie who has built a reputation lately for lying.
Good one.
Perhaps you'll tell another lie, about what I think.
:darwinsm: Good doggie!
Oh well. Technology can be challenging at times.
Do you think all of God's miracles are recorded in scripture?
I do apologize. I had you confused with Greenie. Sometimes it's hard to tell you two apart.
:chuckle: This, coming from Barbie who has built a reputation lately for lying.
Good one.
Perhaps you'll tell another lie, about what I think.
:darwinsm: Good doggie!
Notice how very easily Barbie thinks he can get away with changing what a man writes and claiming the other person to be the one with the failing.
So the creation account is an allegory for creation. Man, you're weird. :chuckle:
Yeah, but we have a word for an allegory about a real event that is called the same thing. An allegory called creation and about creation based on real events is more simply called "History". :chuckle:
No, it doesn't. Unless your "period of time" is one day.
But you can beg the question all day. :thumb:
So?
The firmament refers to the crust of the Earth. Which had water above it (not in the sky).
So?
Sure, there can. All you need is a light source and a rotating Earth.
Yeah .. He still is. :chuckle:
What were His purposes?
What does this mean if it does not mean exactly what it says? What does your "allegory" refer to? Allegories have meaning and are based on known ideas so that they can be understood. What does this passage mean if it is allegory? What message is it trying to get across?
Genesis 1:6-8
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
You continually give generalisations that delve by no means into details. Then you beg the question as if the thing we are debating is not in question. This is what we want to know - what does the passage mean? What is a firmament? Where was the water? Where did evening and morning come from? What do these things mean if it is all an allegory? Why did God put all this in the bible?
some other dude
New member
Please explain how the heat moved the continents. I suspect that much heat would melt the continents.
Also please explain how the water shot all the comets and asteroids into space, explain how that material reached escape velocity and please recall that to get to escape velocity now you need a continuous push from a chemical rocket for some time to build up speed. Brown's idea would seem to require an almost instantaneous escape velocity
It doesn’t matter how the escape velocity is imparted to the object, if it is thrown off by an explosion with the escape velocity, then no further thrust is required.
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Tyrathca
New member
Which would require a very large and sudden input of energy, which would probably sterilise the planet unless one invokes "magicmandunnit"
As I recall (without having reviewed it recently), Walt postulates that the energy had been building up in subterranean chambers (details in his book), and was released when a significant fracture allowed the superheated material to expand, similar to a steam jet.
Barbarian chuckles:
(Stipe claims a layer of water above the Earth) Barbarian chuckles: Well, let's see your model with some numbers on how a ocean of water can be suspended in the sky above the Earth. This should be fun. Stipe dodges:
So Stipe now denies the "water canopy?" Oh, I get it. How much water, exactly did you imagine was above the Earth?
Barbarian on the subject of early part of Genesis:
Creation
Yep. Allegories use symbolic actions, representations, or persons, and may include both figurative and real things. Genesis in other words.
If you chose to use words outside of their accepted usage, you can hardly blame people for not understanding you, Stipe.
Barbarian observes:
For example, there was a real creation, and there were two people. Allegories can be about real things.
But as you learned, Genesis includes some history and some allegory. The creation week is such an allegory.
Barbarian, regarding "The Literal Meaning of Genesis";
It says the initial creation was disordered and over time became ordered and things appeared out of the initial creation. If you'd spend some time learning about the foundations of Christianity, this wouldn't surprise you.
Simply denying the fact won't help you.
You can't read Genesis like a lawyer going over a contract, Stipe. Allegories don't work like that.
Sorry, you can do that, but it won't help your case.
Barbarian observes:
The word "raqua" meant something like a vessel beaten out of malleable material, like copper. Early on, people thought of the sky as a big inverted bowl, and that metaphor was used in the Hebrew language.
That's where the Biblical symbolism for a flat, circular Earth, with a solid dome of a sky came from.
Genesis 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters. [7] And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.
No wonder you don't believe the Bible; you never read it.
Barbarian observes:
Not understanding the water cycle, the ancient Hebrews supposed there was a big ocean overhead, with the sky containing windows from which it could drain out as rain.
It's why your guy invented the "water canopy" above it. Of course, he changed it from a solid dome with with windows and the sun and stars in it, for obvious reasons. Cafeteria creationist, he is.
Barbarian observes:
Allegories don't have to be entirely consistent. That's one of the ways we know. Obviously, unless you redefine words, there can be no morning or evening without a sun.
Again, if you redefine words to mean other things in order to save your story, isn't at a revelation?
Definition of MORNING
a : dawn
b : the time from sunrise to noon
c : the time from midnight to noon
All in relation to the Sun, notice.
Barbarian observes:
The Bible is about God and men and our relationship. Creation is part of that. So His purposes were important.
To tell us about God and men and our relationship.
It does mean exactly what it says. Allegories are no less true than any other way of communication. We don't use them so much anymore, but they are an equally valid way of expressing the truth.
Notice Augustine calls his work, "The Literal Meaning of Genesis" and he is pointing out that it's an allegory.
It says God made the Earth and the Heavens. But it's not a exposition of astronomy. Notice this puts your "water canopy" above the sun and the stars of the firmament. (which is not, contrary to your belief, the Earth's surface.
The "firmament" in Genesis is a solid dome, containing the sun and stars, with windows through which water falls to make rain.
Above the sun and the stars of the firmament.
A bit of a problem, that. No sun to have them. So, this is either an allegory, or you have to redefine "morning" and "evening."
"God created the universe."
Because that was the way people interpreted the universe at the time. Go no more erred in using common understanding than Jesus erred in calling the mustard seed the smallest seed. He wasn't giving a botany lecture.
(Stipe claims a layer of water above the Earth) Barbarian chuckles: Well, let's see your model with some numbers on how a ocean of water can be suspended in the sky above the Earth. This should be fun. Stipe dodges:
So Stipe now denies the "water canopy?" Oh, I get it. How much water, exactly did you imagine was above the Earth?
Barbarian on the subject of early part of Genesis:
Creation
Yep. Allegories use symbolic actions, representations, or persons, and may include both figurative and real things. Genesis in other words.
If you chose to use words outside of their accepted usage, you can hardly blame people for not understanding you, Stipe.
Barbarian observes:
For example, there was a real creation, and there were two people. Allegories can be about real things.
But as you learned, Genesis includes some history and some allegory. The creation week is such an allegory.
Barbarian, regarding "The Literal Meaning of Genesis";
It says the initial creation was disordered and over time became ordered and things appeared out of the initial creation. If you'd spend some time learning about the foundations of Christianity, this wouldn't surprise you.
Simply denying the fact won't help you.
You can't read Genesis like a lawyer going over a contract, Stipe. Allegories don't work like that.
Sorry, you can do that, but it won't help your case.
Barbarian observes:
The word "raqua" meant something like a vessel beaten out of malleable material, like copper. Early on, people thought of the sky as a big inverted bowl, and that metaphor was used in the Hebrew language.
That's where the Biblical symbolism for a flat, circular Earth, with a solid dome of a sky came from.
Genesis 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters. [7] And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.
No wonder you don't believe the Bible; you never read it.
Barbarian observes:
Not understanding the water cycle, the ancient Hebrews supposed there was a big ocean overhead, with the sky containing windows from which it could drain out as rain.
It's why your guy invented the "water canopy" above it. Of course, he changed it from a solid dome with with windows and the sun and stars in it, for obvious reasons. Cafeteria creationist, he is.
Barbarian observes:
Allegories don't have to be entirely consistent. That's one of the ways we know. Obviously, unless you redefine words, there can be no morning or evening without a sun.
Again, if you redefine words to mean other things in order to save your story, isn't at a revelation?
Definition of MORNING
a : dawn
b : the time from sunrise to noon
c : the time from midnight to noon
All in relation to the Sun, notice.
Barbarian observes:
The Bible is about God and men and our relationship. Creation is part of that. So His purposes were important.
To tell us about God and men and our relationship.
It does mean exactly what it says. Allegories are no less true than any other way of communication. We don't use them so much anymore, but they are an equally valid way of expressing the truth.
Notice Augustine calls his work, "The Literal Meaning of Genesis" and he is pointing out that it's an allegory.
It says God made the Earth and the Heavens. But it's not a exposition of astronomy. Notice this puts your "water canopy" above the sun and the stars of the firmament. (which is not, contrary to your belief, the Earth's surface.
The "firmament" in Genesis is a solid dome, containing the sun and stars, with windows through which water falls to make rain.
Above the sun and the stars of the firmament.
A bit of a problem, that. No sun to have them. So, this is either an allegory, or you have to redefine "morning" and "evening."
"God created the universe."
Because that was the way people interpreted the universe at the time. Go no more erred in using common understanding than Jesus erred in calling the mustard seed the smallest seed. He wasn't giving a botany lecture.
What, Barbie? :squint:
There would be nearly 2km of water depth available everywhere, if the Earth were completely spherical.
So Genesis is an allegory from creation for creation. Man, you're weird. :chuckle:
So you don't understand? All one needs to see evening and morning is a light source and a rotating Earth. What is so difficult about that?
You're still able to beg the question. :shocked:
Genesis 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters. [7] And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.
Here it is right here! Water above and below the firmament! Where was the water, Barbie? Hint: Try the few verses before this one. :thumb:
What guy and what water canopy? Man, you're weird!
And yet we could still call what we see evening and morning with another source of light and a rotating Earth. :idunno:
What would be wrong with that? Doesn't suit your story?
What was important about His purposes and His relationship with us when He described making a firmament within the waters to separate the water above from the water below?
Well, it exactly says evening and morning on the first through sixth day. So it must exactly mean six days, huh?
Who? :idunno:
You have shown exactly zero comprehension of what I believe - so we can safely ignore your mischaracterisations for the time being. :up:
And this is part of your "exactly what it says"? Man, you're weird! :dizzy:
That's not what the bible says. Try those slightly earlier verses. :thumb:
You love these generalisations, huh? Problem is, there are a lot of details that go into this short passage. Saying it all means "God created the universe" is to ignore those details. What we want to know is the meaning of those details. If they do not mean what they clearly say, if they are allegorical, what do they mean?
And then the problem is you say the details do mean exactly what they mean!
I think you've successfully confused yourself, Barbie. Time to go have a nice long lie down and think carefully through exactly what it is you want to believe. :chuckle:
Or perhaps people had a better understanding of the universe than you do because they understood better what was being said. :up:
When Jesus told the parable of the mustard seed there was a distinct message for the listener to take away. A lesson on faith and the power of God. All it's details had meaning and explanations. What was the message of Genesis if it was not exactly what it meant (even though you like to say it means exactly what it said :dizzy: )? What do the details pertain to? What lesson does Genesis teach?
We have this passage:
Genesis 1:6-8
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
So you say it does not err because it is an allegory in the same way Jesus did not err when He told the parable about the mustard seed.
Matthew 13:31-32
Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field, which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”
Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field, which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”
But in that parable we have explanations about its elements and its details. The mustard seed is like the kingdom of heaven. We learn that the seemingly inconsequential can become substantial. What about the Genesis passage? How does the Genesis passage work like this parable? What does the firmament refer to? What does the water refer to? What does it mean for the firmament to divide the water? Where is the explanation of this "allegory"? What are we meant to learn?
I notice you're very good at insisting that it is an allegory, begging the question by presenting evidence that relies on your assumption, excellent at misapplying descriptions of the Earth as if I said them, a past master of sowing confusion & irrelevancy and willing to say almost anything in order to avoid answering simple questions. But we know you'll never be able to provide anything of substance against the perfectly reasonable and rational practice of reading God's word and accepting what it plainly says. :thumb:
some other dude
New member
Barbarian, in the past, I showed you with Scripture that you can't possibly be under Peter (even as a Catholic) but that Paul is your apostle "to the Gentiles." You refused to even consider the matter.
If you want to do a Bible study on Ezekiel 31, zeroing in on verses 15 and 16 which can be tied in to the Genesis Flood, I will be glad to do so. But if your mind is made up, I will not bother.
What heppened to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
What did this Tree represent?
Where is the Tree of Life?
What does this Tree represent?
Just curious, does water exist anywhere in the universe except earth? I'm honestly asking. I don't know for sure.
Tom
some other dude
New member
Barbarian chuckles: (Stipe claims a layer of water above the Earth) Well, let's see your model with some numbers on how a ocean of water can be suspended in the sky above the Earth. This should be fun.
How much water, exactly did you imagine was above the Earth?
Barbarian on the subject of early part of Genesis:Creation
Yep. Allegories use symbolic actions, representations, or persons, and may include both figurative and real things. Genesis in other words.
For example, there was a real creation, and there were two people. Allegories can be about real things. But as you learned, Genesis includes some history and some allegory. The creation week is such an allegory.
Genesis is an allegory for creation.
No. It's an allegory for creation.
Barbarian observes:
If you chose to use words outside of their accepted usage, you can hardly blame people for not understanding you, Stipe.
For users of English, it's sunrise.
Barbarian, regarding "The Literal Meaning of Genesis":
It says the initial creation was disordered and over time became ordered and things appeared out of the initial creation. If you'd spend some time learning about the foundations of Christianity, this wouldn't surprise you. Simply denying the fact won't help you. You can't read Genesis like a lawyer going over a contract, Stipe.
Allegories don't work like that.
The word "raqua" meant something like a vessel beaten out of malleable material, like copper. Early on, people thought of the sky as a big inverted bowl, and that metaphor was used in the Hebrew language.That's where the Biblical symbolism for a flat, circular Earth, with a solid dome of a sky came from.
You got answers to several questions you asked. But you're still dodging what I asked you.
(Stipe demonstrates his knowlege of the Bible)
(Barbarian explains to Stipe that the "firmament" was where the sun and stars were located)
Genesis 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters. [7] And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.
Yep. So your attempt to make this into a history, requires that the waters you suppose were up there were beyond the sun and the stars. How did that work, Stipe?
Barbarian observes:
Not understanding the water cycle, the ancient Hebrews supposed there was a big ocean overhead, with the sky containing windows from which it could drain out as rain. It's why your guy invented the "water canopy" above it. Of course, he changed it from a solid dome with with windows and the sun and stars in it, for obvious reasons. Cafeteria creationist, he is.
The one that told you there was water above the firmament. He lied to you about it being the crust of the Earth, too. Don't you ever read the Bible, Stipe?
Barbarian observes:
Allegories don't have to be entirely consistent. Obviously, unless you redefine words, there can be no morning or evening without a sun. Again, if you redefine words to mean other things in order to save your story, isn't that a revelation?
Definition of MORNING
a : dawn
b : the time from sunrise to noon
c : the time from midnight to noon All in relation to the Sun, notice.
A bit of a problem, that. No sun to have them. So, this is either an allegory, or you have to redefine "morning" and "evening."
You could call anything you want anything you want. But if you want to communicate in English, you have to use words they way they are understood.
Once you start insisting on private definitions of words to save your bad theology, anything goes.
Barbarian observes:
The Bible is about God and men and our relationship. Creation is part of that. So His purposes were important. To tell us about God and men and our relationship.
About the same as Jesus' purposes and His relationship with us, when He said a mustard seed is the smallest seed. Not technically accurate, but something His listeners could hear and understand His meaning.
Barbarian observes:
It does mean exactly what it says.
Allegories can be precisely right, and still use figurative language. If you're a Christian, this should not be surprising to you. On the other hand, given that you think the "firmament" was the crust of the Earth, there's a lot about Scripture that seems to be a surprise for you.
Allegories are no less true than any other way of communication. We don't use them so much anymore, but they are an equally valid way of expressing the truth. Notice Augustine calls his work, "The Literal Meaning of Genesis" and he is pointing out that it's an allegory.
A Christian. The most respected theologian of the early Christian church. You wouldn't know about him.
It says God made the Earth and the Heavens. But it's not a exposition of astronomy. Notice this puts your "water canopy" above the sun and the stars of the firmament. (which is not, contrary to your belief, the Earth's surface.
Stipe, I doubt if you even know what you believe. But you do say things that can be examined, even if what you say is often inconsistent.
Barbarian observes:
The "firmament" in Genesis is a solid dome, containing the sun and stars, with windows through which water falls to make rain.
Nope. It's an allegory, remember. So God really has no interest in expounding on Raleigh scattering, or the hydrologic cycle. So He uses terms people of the time understand, and in that framework explains His purposes and care for us.
The basic historical fact that defines the meaning of raqiya‘—the Hebrew word in Genesis 1 which the King James Bible reads as ‘firmament,’ but many modern translations render ‘expanse’—‘is simply this: all peoples in the ancient world thought of the sky as solid.
Evangelical Christian P.H. Seeley Westminster Theological Journal 53:227–240, 1991
Christians are used to that sort of thing from people. It doesn't bother us.
Barbarian notes the supposed location of the waters:
Above the sun and the stars of the firmament.
Well, let's take a look...
Genesis 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:7
And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.
Genesis 1:8
And God called the firmament, Heaven;
Surprise.
How much water, exactly did you imagine was above the Earth?
You guys still think it's flat?
Barbarian on the subject of early part of Genesis:Creation
Yep. Allegories use symbolic actions, representations, or persons, and may include both figurative and real things. Genesis in other words.
For example, there was a real creation, and there were two people. Allegories can be about real things. But as you learned, Genesis includes some history and some allegory. The creation week is such an allegory.
Genesis is an allegory for creation.
No. It's an allegory for creation.
(Stipe redefines "morning" from "sunrise" to "big light in the sky."
Barbarian observes:
If you chose to use words outside of their accepted usage, you can hardly blame people for not understanding you, Stipe.
For users of English, it's sunrise.
Barbarian, regarding "The Literal Meaning of Genesis":
It says the initial creation was disordered and over time became ordered and things appeared out of the initial creation. If you'd spend some time learning about the foundations of Christianity, this wouldn't surprise you. Simply denying the fact won't help you. You can't read Genesis like a lawyer going over a contract, Stipe.
Allegories don't work like that.
The word "raqua" meant something like a vessel beaten out of malleable material, like copper. Early on, people thought of the sky as a big inverted bowl, and that metaphor was used in the Hebrew language.That's where the Biblical symbolism for a flat, circular Earth, with a solid dome of a sky came from.
You got answers to several questions you asked. But you're still dodging what I asked you.
(Stipe demonstrates his knowlege of the Bible)
(Barbarian explains to Stipe that the "firmament" was where the sun and stars were located)
Genesis 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters. [7] And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.
Yep. So your attempt to make this into a history, requires that the waters you suppose were up there were beyond the sun and the stars. How did that work, Stipe?
Barbarian observes:
Not understanding the water cycle, the ancient Hebrews supposed there was a big ocean overhead, with the sky containing windows from which it could drain out as rain. It's why your guy invented the "water canopy" above it. Of course, he changed it from a solid dome with with windows and the sun and stars in it, for obvious reasons. Cafeteria creationist, he is.
The one that told you there was water above the firmament. He lied to you about it being the crust of the Earth, too. Don't you ever read the Bible, Stipe?
Barbarian observes:
Allegories don't have to be entirely consistent. Obviously, unless you redefine words, there can be no morning or evening without a sun. Again, if you redefine words to mean other things in order to save your story, isn't that a revelation?
Definition of MORNING
a : dawn
b : the time from sunrise to noon
c : the time from midnight to noon All in relation to the Sun, notice.
A bit of a problem, that. No sun to have them. So, this is either an allegory, or you have to redefine "morning" and "evening."
You could call anything you want anything you want. But if you want to communicate in English, you have to use words they way they are understood.
Once you start insisting on private definitions of words to save your bad theology, anything goes.
Barbarian observes:
The Bible is about God and men and our relationship. Creation is part of that. So His purposes were important. To tell us about God and men and our relationship.
About the same as Jesus' purposes and His relationship with us, when He said a mustard seed is the smallest seed. Not technically accurate, but something His listeners could hear and understand His meaning.
Barbarian observes:
It does mean exactly what it says.
Allegories can be precisely right, and still use figurative language. If you're a Christian, this should not be surprising to you. On the other hand, given that you think the "firmament" was the crust of the Earth, there's a lot about Scripture that seems to be a surprise for you.
Allegories are no less true than any other way of communication. We don't use them so much anymore, but they are an equally valid way of expressing the truth. Notice Augustine calls his work, "The Literal Meaning of Genesis" and he is pointing out that it's an allegory.
A Christian. The most respected theologian of the early Christian church. You wouldn't know about him.
It says God made the Earth and the Heavens. But it's not a exposition of astronomy. Notice this puts your "water canopy" above the sun and the stars of the firmament. (which is not, contrary to your belief, the Earth's surface.
Stipe, I doubt if you even know what you believe. But you do say things that can be examined, even if what you say is often inconsistent.
Barbarian observes:
The "firmament" in Genesis is a solid dome, containing the sun and stars, with windows through which water falls to make rain.
Nope. It's an allegory, remember. So God really has no interest in expounding on Raleigh scattering, or the hydrologic cycle. So He uses terms people of the time understand, and in that framework explains His purposes and care for us.
The basic historical fact that defines the meaning of raqiya‘—the Hebrew word in Genesis 1 which the King James Bible reads as ‘firmament,’ but many modern translations render ‘expanse’—‘is simply this: all peoples in the ancient world thought of the sky as solid.
Evangelical Christian P.H. Seeley Westminster Theological Journal 53:227–240, 1991
Christians are used to that sort of thing from people. It doesn't bother us.
Barbarian notes the supposed location of the waters:
Above the sun and the stars of the firmament.
Well, let's take a look...
Genesis 1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:7
And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.
Genesis 1:8
And God called the firmament, Heaven;
Surprise.
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