Lon
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verse
Rapid Adaptation
- Thread starter 6days
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6days
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Yes..... and...
Ex. 20:11.. He Created everything in six days
Rom. 5:12 Death entered the world after sin.
Gen. 2:22 God made Eve from a rib.
Gen.1:3 God created light before He created the sun*
Gen. 7:22 ALL on dry land perished.
Gen. 1:9 Earth was water before dry land.
Mark 10:6 Adam and Eve from beginning of creation.
The list can go on..... evolutionists reject what God says
Alate_One
Well-known member
Twisting what I said into an emotional point isn't exactly having a rational argument.
In an entirely different mode of existence.
Now you're just repeating yourself since you apparently don't want to discuss the subject rationally.
That passage is quite possibly symbolic rather than literal.
Because if the lion wasn't there the population of zebras would explode leading to more suffering due to starvation and illness. Plus predators remove individuals that are suffering to begin with and keep the populations of their prey fit and healthy. And when we talk about evolution we're talking about life and survival. If it was only death, nothing would be here. It is a creative process. Much as God used death and war to create the nation of Israel and thus the ancestors of Christ.
In your opinion. Is it better for God to have caused death and suffering of animals because of one man eating the fruit he was told not to? How is that a higher view of the nature of God?
Or is it better and a clearer reading of scripture to say death is a necessary part of physical existence - at least for animals. Humans were called to a higher purpose but we failed.
At this point I think we have both stated our arguments. I don't think either view is a salvation issue. Would you agree to that at least?
The creationist revision of Genesis requires mornings and evenings without a Sun to have them.
The creationist revision of Genesis says life comes only from life, but God says it comes from the earth.
The creationist revision of Genesis says that the death God spoke up was a physical one, even though He told Adam that he would die the day he ate from the tree, but Adam lived on physically for many years thereafter.
6days
New member
Christ suffering physical death on the cross to pay the penalty of our sin is a Biblically rational argument....and an emotional point.Alate_One said:
Hey...where you going with the goalposts. You said we don't know what perfect is like. I'm just showing from scripture that we do have some ideas what perfect. And we know the nature of God.Alate_One said:
A rational discussion what involve you attempting to address the point. Do you believe that God used a process of death, pain and suffering to create everything...and called that process very good?Alate_One said:
Quote possibly symbolic of perfection? And God would not create anything other than perfection.*Alate_One said:
SO in your view, Heaven may just be a continuation of death, pain and suffering of animals to prevent starvation and illness?Alate_One said:
Evolutionism like that is an outright rejection of scripture. God is the Creator....not death.Alate_One said:
It is difficult for us to grasp how much God hates sin. He cursed creation..."all creation groans". You seem to imply that God is unjust that animals suffer because of our sin. Do you also think that God is unjust by sending his innocent Lamb of God to suffer and die because of our sin?Alate_One said:
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It's possible though, Dolezal became a black women in just a few years. Noah's grandchildren became Chinese and Eskimos and Aborigines and even Blacks. This all happened almost as fast as the AIG museum became a laughing stock!
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Glad to see you've gone on another one of your "vacations!"
If Adam was perfect, there would have been no fall, would there?
Why not just trust Him and accept that what has happened and what will happen is the best possible way to get to what He intends for us? Do you think He didn't know what would happen as a result of what He created?
6days
New member
Incorrect.
Adam was created for relationship...for love.
Love involves choice...not programmed obedience.
Adam and Eve were created perfect.
Barbarian suggests:
If Adam was perfect, there would have been no fall, would there?
6days writes:
A perfect being would not defy God, would he? Only if God intended that to happen, would we call such a creature "perfect."
If Adam was perfect, there would have been no fall, would there?
6days writes:
A perfect being would not defy God, would he? Only if God intended that to happen, would we call such a creature "perfect."
Alate_One
Well-known member
Why not create heaven in the first place where there's apparently little to no opportunity to sin. The problem is yours as well. I don't know and I'm quite sure you don't either.
I do believe evolution was used to create everything, however I wouldn't characterize it as "a process of death pain and suffering".
If you go out into nature today, take a walk in the forest or along the beach, do you see constant "death, pain and suffering"? Or do you see animals and plants living out their lives?
Evolution of the past is just like nature of today.
Do you not see beauty in nature? And if you understood ecology better you would see the balance between different species and that can be beautiful as well.
I don't know. Why create a world where the possibility of sin exists, then? Is that perfection? Have you considered that allowing "choice" in man may also allow "choice" in nature. Natural freedom = evolutionary change.
No, where would you get that idea? Heaven is spiritual, apparently a different mode of existence.
Death doesn't create, it's the survival and reproduction of organism that "creates". Death isn't absolutely necessary for evolution to occur, only that some organisms reproduce more than others.
No. But if you say all of creation doesn't only groan but operates in a totally different (and bad) fashion in your opinion, it seems like collateral damage.
Humanity sinned and thus humanity should bear most of the burden. To then say God cursed all of creation into something bad seems like punishing someone that didn't have anything to do with a crime, and for no good reason. I think the willing sacrifice of an innocent to pay a penalty is just. An attack on something that has no sentience or involvement at all doesn't make any sense.
everready
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everready
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Says here sin entered the world, and death by sin.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
everready
6days
New member
Incorrect...again.Barbarian said:
But you did create a 'perfect' strawman. *
I didn't say Adam was perfect.
I said Adam was created perfectly for a love relationship. Adam would have been created IMperfectly if he was programmed not sin. Love involves choice / free will.*
Speaking of programming though.... The ability of animals to adapt, sometimes very rapidly is evidence of our Programmer /our Creator.*
Barbarian asks:
A perfect being would not defy God, would he?
You're assuming what you intended to prove. As you know, "perfect" is your modification of God's word.
It remains true that a perfect creature would not rebel against God.
Which, I suppose is why God didn't say that Adam and Satan were perfect.
A perfect being would not defy God, would he?
You're assuming what you intended to prove. As you know, "perfect" is your modification of God's word.
It remains true that a perfect creature would not rebel against God.
Which, I suppose is why God didn't say that Adam and Satan were perfect.
everready
New member
A description of Satan, can't modify this.
Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.)
everready
His ways were perfect. His conduct was. But then, it was found that he wasn't perfect, after all. Iniquity was found in him.
You proved my point for me. Satan served as his God's accuser of sinful beings, until he got a bit overzealous and disagreed with God over whether any human was truly good. Hence Job. God intended Satan to learn from the experience, but he seems to have stubbornly resisted all the more as a result of it.
From that point on, Satan departed the path of perfection; a flaw was in him and he ultimately rebelled against God completely. As Jerimiah put it, rebellion against God; "non servium."
everready
New member
You said: a perfect creature wouldn't rebel against God.
God said: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created
everready
Death= separation from God.....not ceasing to have a heart beat.