Rapid Adaptation

Lon

Well-known member
Do you suppose an omniscient God would not know this was going to happen? And do you think that man sinning would force an omnipotent God to change nature to one in which death occurred?

The god of creationism is not the omnipotent, omniscient Holy God of the Bible.

Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of
our bodies.

Evolutions knows nothing of this, so would miss an important history lesson and likely miss that God did something different because of sin and would miss something not understanding Colossians 1. No Christian is excused from Sunday School.

 

patrick jane

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Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of
our bodies.

Evolutions knows nothing of this, so would miss an important history lesson and likely miss that God did something different because of sin and would miss something not understanding Colossians 1. No Christian is excused from Sunday School.


beautiful post Lon -
 

TracerBullet

New member
It is well known in the scientific world today that such influential evolutionists as Stephen Jay Gould and Edward Wilson of Harvard, Richard Dawkins of England, William Provine of Cornell, and numerous other evolutionary spokesmen are dogmatic atheists. Eminent scientific philosopher and ardent Darwinian atheist Michael Ruse has even acknowledged that evolution is their religion!

http://www.icr.org/article/455/


everready

"Music is my religion." - Jimi Hendrix
"Love is my religion." - Ziggy Marley
"The internet is my religion." - Jim Gilliam
"America is my religion." - Peter Gardella
 

Stripe

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"Music is my religion." - Jimi Hendrix
"Love is my religion." - Ziggy Marley
"The internet is my religion." - Jim Gilliam
"America is my religion." - Peter Gardella

And evolution is the atheist's religion.
 

The Barbarian

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And evolution is the atheist's religion.

What about geology? Physics? Astronomy? They all contradict your new religion as well. Do atheists worship those, too?

I thought atheism meant one has no religion. (Barbarian checks)

Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist

It's another "Stipe's personal definition special."
 

Stripe

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What about geology? Physics? Astronomy? They all contradict your new religion as well. Do atheists worship those, too?I thought atheism meant one has no religion. (Barbarian checks)[COLOR="DarkRed"]Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings.[/COLOR][url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist[/url]It's another "Stipe's personal definition special."

When you have retracted your incorrect portrayal of my definition of kind and correctly stated what I said, then you might be able to join a rational discussion.
 

The Barbarian

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When you have retracted your incorrect portrayal of my definition of kind and correctly stated what I said, then you might be able to join a rational discussion.

Stipe, no one cares what you think. I invited you, if you think my understanding of your idea of "kind" is wrong, to correct me. Since you declined to do that, it's pretty clear that you're just playing games again.
 

Stripe

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Stipe, no one cares what you think. I invited you, if you think my understanding of your idea of "kind" is wrong, to correct me. Since you declined to do that, it's pretty clear that you're just playing games again.

Nope. You made the mistake, you fix it. That's how it works in civilized society.

Clearly you are not here to be either civil or helpful; you're nothing but a troll. :troll:
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
So... the 'little problem' then is that the spiritual death would mean an eternity in Hell after physical death? If the "Big" problem was just spiritual death, then Christ did not need go to the cross...and the Gospel becomes illogical.
No, spiritual death is the BIG problem. And yes you still need a sacrifice because to cover sin of another which is the physical death of an innocent individual. Sin causes separation from God (spiritual death). Sin is the big problem. That people die physically is a relatively minor side effect. I think you don't understand the gospel very well yourself.

And, I see that view of a perfect creation consistent with scripture and the nature of God.
But you don't know what "perfect" is. It's colored by a particular cultural view of what creation should be. Jews don't share this view and they have the same OT as we have they accept death as part of life from the beginning.

Evolutionary dogma believes in a God who 'created' through a process of pain, suffering, death and extinctions calling it "very good". The god of evolutionism is not the omnipotent, omniscient Holy God of the Bible.
Pain in and of itself is not evil, neither is suffering. But I think in an attempt to dismiss evolution, you miss the point that it is about survival and life persisting in the face of adversity. And as far as suffering goes, there may actually be less of it than you think for two reasons. Suffering requires very complex organisms, I would say it's a necessary outgrowth of complexity. For most of evolutionary history, organisms weren't complex. Secondly because of efficient predators in nature, death comes quickly to the injured or sick, unlike in modern medicine where we can prolong suffering for years and years.

“Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free-wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself”
― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

So is YEC dogma better, that God punished all of creation (essentially re-creating it) in a physical sense to cause every possible negative event because one man sinned?

Again... This shows how evolutionism tosses out the Gospel.
You haven't shown that at all.

God tells us that the shedding of blood / death was the penalty for our sin. Only the innocent blood of the Lamb could pay the penalty for our sin. I can't take your penalty by dying for you Alate...I'm a sinner too.

Shedding of blood, (lamb, or The Lamb) certainly was not part of God's "very good" creation, but was a consequence of sin corrupting this world.
Not corrupting the world, for sin corrupting humankind. But the shedding of innocent blood to cover sin is important because sin causes separation from God (spiritual death).
 

The Barbarian

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Lon, the point is that if you actually believe God is omnipotent and omniscient, you'll accept that He knew all of this would happen, and He was not compelled to introduce death into the world because two of His creatures sinned. And if Adam and Eve were created as immortal beings, there would be no need for them to eat from the tree of life in order to live forever. So Genesis itself rejects such ideas.

Genesis 3:22 And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever. [23] And the Lord God sent him out of the paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was taken. [24] And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Evolutions knows nothing of this,

Neither does metallurgy. I don't see the point. Science isn't about the supernatural. It's just about the way nature works.

so would miss an important history lesson and likely miss that God did something different because of sin and would miss something not understanding Colossians

So would plumbing. That seems a bit much to demand of a human methodology. Just saying.

1. No Christian is excused from Sunday School.

Rational apologetics would accept that an omnipotent and omniscient God would know what was going to happen, and would not be compelled to do any particular thing.

If you have faith in Him, accept that what is happening in His creation is ultimately His will. The problem of evil is not solved by "it's all Adam's fault."
 

Stripe

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Lon, the point is that if you actually believe God is omnipotent and omniscient, you'll accept that He knew all of this would happen, and He was not compelled to introduce death into the world because two of His creatures sinned. Neither does metallurgy. I don't see the point. Science isn't about the supernatural. It's just about the way nature works.So would plumbing. That seems a bit much to demand of a human methodology. Just saying.Rational apologetics would accept that an omnipotent and omniscient God would know what was going to happen, and would not be compelled to do any particular thing.If you have faith in Him, accept that what is happening in His creation is ultimately His will. The problem of evil is not solved by "it's all Adam's fault."

You can try moving on as if nothing has happened, but you have exposed your determined dishonesty one too many times. Time to face up to reality; concede your error and properly represent the definition that has been given to you. Then you might be able to join a civil discussion.
 

The Barbarian

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Stipe tries to derail the conversation.

You can try moving on as if nothing has happened,

I'm pointing out that the creationist religion is contrary to an omnipotent and omniscient God. No one pays any attention to your frantic accusations anymore.

If you think my understanding of your definition of "kind" is wrong, correct me. Since I've called you out twice this now, without a response from you, you've made it abundantly clear that you aren't interested in a rational discussion of the matter.

Meantime, how about trying to put together a cogent argument for your side, with some evidence to support it?
 

Stripe

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Stipe tries to derail the conversation.I'm pointing out that the creationist religion is contrary to an omnipotent and omniscient God. No one pays any attention to your frantic accusations anymore.If you think my understanding of your definition of "kind" is wrong, correct me. Since I've called you out twice this now, without a response from you, you've made it abundantly clear that you aren't interested in a rational discussion of the matter.Meantime, how about trying to put together a cogent argument for your side, with some evidence to support it?

1. My name has an "r" in it. You need to start using it. :up:
2. In a civilized conversation, it is the man in the wrong who is obliged to correct himself. :up:

You made up a definition for kind and pretended it was mine. Time to man up and admit your mistake. :thumb:
 

The Barbarian

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1. My name has an "r" in it. You need to start using it.

Act in a respectable and honest manner, and you might get more respect.

2. In a civilized conversation, it is the man in the wrong who is obliged to correct himself.

Three times now, I've asked you to tell me what I've misunderstood about your definition. Three times, you've declined to say. If you're interested in an honest discussion, you have an odd way of showing it.

Just tell me what I got wrong. Why is that so difficult? I'm starting to suspect that you're just trying to avoid discussion.
 

6days

New member
I'm pointing out that the creationist religion is contrary to an omnipotent and omniscient God.
For in six days the LORD made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy. Ex. 20:11
 

6days

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Alate_One said:
.... That people die physically is a relatively minor side effect. I think you don't understand the gospel very well yourself.
If you had been around 2000 years ago, you could have shouted that up to Jesus on the cross that His suffering and death was just a minor side effect of your sin.*

Alate_One said:
6days said:
And, I see that view of a perfect creation consistent with scripture and the nature of God.
But you don't know what "perfect" is....
God's Word allows us to get a glimpse of His nature, and perfection.

We see God desiring for us "no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever." Rev. 21:4
--Yet evolutionists think God created through millions of years of death, sorrow, crying and pain....and that He thought this was "very good". Gen. 1:31

In scripture we see a God who notices even when a sparrow dies. We see a God who paints this word picture of perfection..."In that day the wolf and the lamb will live together; the leopard will lie down with the baby goat. The calf and the yearling will be safe with the lion, and a little child will lead them all"
--Yet evolutionists watch a nature show of a mother Zebra helplessly watching her baby crying as the lion eats it alive....and think God calls this "very good".*


Trying to fit millions of years into scripture, causes you to believe that death came before sin....that pain and suffering existed before sin.... Trying to add millions of years into scripture causes you to have a low view of the nature of God, scripture, and ultimately a low view of the Gospel and the purpose of Christ's physical *death
 

everready

New member
Evidence Of An Omnipotent And Omniscient God.

Evidence Of An Omnipotent And Omniscient God.

Stipe tries to derail the conversation.



I'm pointing out that the creationist religion is contrary to an omnipotent and omniscient God. No one pays any attention to your frantic accusations anymore.

If you think my understanding of your definition of "kind" is wrong, correct me. Since I've called you out twice this now, without a response from you, you've made it abundantly clear that you aren't interested in a rational discussion of the matter.

Meantime, how about trying to put together a cogent argument for your side, with some evidence to support it?

What you should be pointing out if you love the Lord is that the creationist religion as you call it Is evidence of an omnipotent and omniscient God.

Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses.

8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.

9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.


everready
 

The Barbarian

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What you should be pointing out if you love the Lord is that the creationist religion as you call it Is evidence of an omnipotent and omniscient God.

You say that, but then you deny what He says in Genesis.
 
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