Rapid Adaptation

[way 2 go]

Barbarian suggests:
Why don't you show us that scripture that says all of it is perfect?

6days hopes we won't notice the missing word:


Nice try.

God is perfect
and his standard of good is himself

Mar_10:18 And Jesus said to him, Why do you call Me good? No one is good except one, God.

soooo

if God says it was good and he is the standard of what is good
then we can say it was perfect

 

[resodko]

Barbarian suggests:
Why don't you show us that scripture that says all of it is perfect?

6days hopes we won't notice the missing word:


Nice try.

Bible sez:"His work is perfect"

barbie sez "nuh unh, not all of it"


good one barbie :thumb:

excellent troll

 

[6days]

"Before our very eyes" the Biblical model of rapid adaptation is confirmed proclaims atheist Richard Dawkins. Er....actually in his book 'Greatest Show' he claims rapid adaptation (caused by a loss of genetic information) is evolution "before our very eyes". He is discussing how elephants now are tuskless, or have much shorter tusks than elephants of 150 years ago. Dawkins example would really be common ancestry beliefs in reverse.

Elephants loosing their tusks ("evolution in action" claim) is a really just another example of the Biblical model. We see the beauty and majesty of God's creation all around. We also see the effects of the curse in extinctions, genetic diseases, and loss of pre-existing genetic information.

 

[Greg Jennings]

"Before our very eyes" the Biblical model of rapid adaptation is confirmed proclaims atheist Richard Dawkins. Er....actually in his book 'Greatest Show' he claims rapid adaptation (caused by a loss of genetic information) is evolution "before our very eyes". He is discussing how elephants now are tuskless, or have much shorter tusks than elephants of 150 years ago. Dawkins example would really be common ancestry beliefs in reverse.

Elephants loosing their tusks ("evolution in action" claim) is a really just another example of the Biblical model. We see the beauty and majesty of God's creation all around. We also see the effects of the curse in extinctions, genetic diseases, and loss of pre-existing genetic information.

Who cares what Dawkins says? Not that I'm saying he's wrong about your above observation (something I've never heard of myself), but it's not like he is one of the leading scientists that have work dealing with evolution.

He's just a staunch atheist. That is what makes him so special to you and other creationists. Because he is so overzealously atheist, he's easy for YECs to use in their anti-evolution propaganda. They say, "You hear him? He said that evolution and religion are mutually exclusive! That means you have to be a young Earth creationist to be a Christian!"
And that convinces some people (usually those not exposed to science at a high educational level) to be YECs.

You complain about him constantly, but the funny thing is that he's far far more important to creationists to to scientists

 

[6days]

Who cares what Dawkins says?

Tens of millions of people care what he says. He isn't called the pope of atheism for no reason.

Not that I'm saying he's wrong about your above observation

He is.

but it's not like he is one of the leading scientists that have work dealing with evolution.

Good observation! This explains why science has consistently proved him wrong.

You complain about him constantly, but the funny thing is that he's far far more important to creationists to to scientists

Complain about him? Nope. Mock his 'science'? You bet!
Since we both seem to agree Dawkins isn't a great representative of science... now we can get back to discussing how rapid adaptation fits the Biblical model.

 

[patrick jane]

Rapid adoption ? How quick can you get a baby ?

 

[Greg Jennings]

Tens of millions of people care what he says. He isn't called the pope of atheism for no reason.

He is.

Good observation! This explains why science has consistently proved him wrong.

Complain about him? Nope. Mock his 'science'? You bet!
Since we both seem to agree Dawkins isn't a great representative of science... now we can get back to discussing how rapid adaptation fits the Biblical model.

Tell me how shocked quartz forms in the "Biblical creation model."

AND/OR

Why did the entire field of geology start out with a belief in a young Earth, then [after decades of gathering evidence] change its collective mind to belief in a very old earth?


If science fits your model, you have to be able to come up with a reasonable explanation for the things that we observe. Otherwise you're just spouting the same false information once again that you and other creationists cling on to

 

[6days]

If science fits your model, you have to be able to come up with a reasonable explanation for the things that we observe.

True... Rapid adaptation explains the wide diversity of life on our planet.

Otherwise you're just spouting the same false information once again that you and other creationists cling on to

I'm 'shocked' that you disagree with me Greg.

RE. "Clinging"...Yes, I cling to Jesus and His Word

 

[Clete]

Why did the entire field of geology start out with a belief in a young Earth, then [after decades of gathering evidence] change its collective mind to belief in a very old earth?

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay

It has nothing to do with gathering evidence. It has to do with wanting an alternative to God and needing billions of years to make Darwinism work. It's all a bias based delusion. Scientists (i.e. so called scientists) see what they want to see and ignore everything else.


You Are Now Less Dumb: How to Conquer Mob Mentality, How to Buy Happiness, and All the Other Ways to Outsmart Yourself by David McRaney

 

[Greg Jennings]

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay

It has nothing to do with gathering evidence. It has to do with wanting an alternative to God and needing billions of years to make Darwinism work. It's all a bias based delusion. Scientists (i.e. so called scientists) see what they want to see and ignore everything else.


You Are Now Less Dumb: How to Conquer Mob Mentality, How to Buy Happiness, and All the Other Ways to Outsmart Yourself by David McRaney

So you're saying that the entire field of science suddenly turned from fundamentalist Christian to atheist overnight, then decided to make up atheistic explanations for evidence out of anti-religious bias?


You're nuts. There are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of scientists who are Christian and also accept evolution. Are they looking for atheist solutions too?

 

[Greg Jennings]

Let's review -

First, I ask you:

Tell me how shocked quartz forms in the "Biblical creation model."

AND/OR

Why did the entire field of geology start out with a belief in a young Earth, then [after decades of gathering evidence] change its collective mind to belief in a very old earth?

You then respond with this, not answering either question I asked:

True... Rapid adaptation explains the wide diversity of life on our planet.

I'm 'shocked' that you disagree with me Greg.

RE. "Clinging"...Yes, I cling to Jesus and His Word

Why are you dodging again? Why can't your robust theory stand up to simple online forum scrutiny?

Do you expect any scientist to take a person like you, who dodges simple questions over and over and over again when presented with any sort of challenge, seriously?
:chuckle:

 

[6days]

You then respond with this, not answering either question I asked:

You are correct Greg.... I ignored your geology questions because it seemed totally off topic.
However I did answer this question from you which IS on topic...
Greg: "If science fits your model, you have to be able to come up with a reasonable explanation for the things that we observe."
6days replied: "True... Rapid adaptation explains the wide diversity of life on our planet. "

Re. Your geology questions I would suggest you google key words such as 'creation.com shocked quartz'. Or ICR, or AIG

 

[Clete]

So you're saying that the entire field of science suddenly turned from fundamentalist Christian to atheist overnight, then decided to make up atheistic explanations for evidence out of anti-religious bias?

No, that is not what I said.

You're nuts. There are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of scientists who are Christian and also accept evolution. Are they looking for atheist solutions too?

So what? (the claim is false - the Christian worldview is in direct contradiction to evolution. The two are quite mutually exclusive, discounting of course the severely confused/deceived - the point being that if they existed it would irrelevant)

How many people believe something is irrelevant.

How long it took for that many people to believe it is irrelevant.

How the process evolved from one mainstream belief to another is irrelevant.


The fact is that scientist are people too and as such they naturally more readily see evidence that supports their current worldview and more readily overlook or discount evidence to the contrary.

But 99% of what passes for science today has nothing to do with investigating evidence in an impartial manner and drawing conclusions based on quantifiable, instrumental observations made during objective experimentation. It's politics and propaganda designed to push forward leftist sociopolitical agendas, not the least of which is the killing of God in the minds of the public. Today it is worse than its been since the dark ages. If we don't change course you'll eventually see the reemergence of something equivalent to the Spanish Inquisition.

I'd wager that you aren't far away from supporting the notion that a Christian scientist is a contradiction in terms and that they should be silenced.

 

[Greg Jennings]

No, that is not what I said.


So what? (the claim is false - the Christian worldview is in direct contradiction to evolution. The two are quite mutually exclusive, discounting of course the severely confused/deceived - the point being that if they existed it would irrelevant)

How many people believe something is irrelevant.

How long it took for that many people to believe it is irrelevant.

How the process evolved from one mainstream belief to another is irrelevant.


The fact is that scientist are people too and as such they naturally more readily see evidence that supports their current worldview and more readily overlook or discount evidence to the contrary.

But 99% of what passes for science today has nothing to do with investigating evidence in an impartial manner and drawing conclusions based on quantifiable, instrumental observations made during objective experimentation. It's politics and propaganda designed to push forward leftist sociopolitical agendas, not the least of which is the killing of God in the minds of the public. Today it is worse than its been since the dark ages. If we don't change course you'll eventually see the reemergence of something equivalent to the Spanish Inquisition.

You don't get it. Why would all of science start out YEC, then only after decades of actually gathering evidence (which hadn't been done much when bible belief was the scientific norm) the community changed its collective mind to belief in billions of years?

Nobody starts with the right answer, then gets the wrong one through careful and thorough re-examination.


And your laughable "99%" statement above: tell me, does that come from experience with working in scientific fields or with scientists? I'm guessing not.

I'd wager that you aren't far away from supporting the notion that a Christian scientist is a contradiction in terms and that they should be silenced.

Where in the world have you ever heard this? What a strange, self-victimizing world you live in

I'd wager that you haven't the foggiest idea how evolution works, do you?

 

[6days]

You don't get it. Why would all of science start out YEC, then only after decades of actually gathering evidence (which hadn't been done much when bible belief was the scientific norm) the community changed its collective mind to belief in billions of years? Nobody starts with the right answer, then gets the wrong one through careful and thorough re-examination

You don't get it Greg.

Science is not about beliefs, or a "collective mind". Science is not a consensus sport. Science is knowledge....the search for truth...using the scientific method. This thread is about rapid adaptation, and observable science. It is one of many evidences in support of God's Word.

 

[Greg Jennings]

You don't get it Greg.

Science is not about beliefs, or a "collective mind". Science is not a consensus sport. Science is knowledge....the search for truth...using the scientific method. This thread is about rapid adaptation, and observable science. It is one of many evidences in support of God's Word.

And if we re-read what you quoted me saying....

You don't get it. Why would all of science start out YEC, then only after decades of actually gathering evidence (which hadn't been done much when bible belief was the scientific norm) the community changed its collective mind to belief in billions of years?

Nobody starts with the right answer, then gets the wrong one through careful and thorough re-examination.

......we can see that I'm talking about evidence, not a belief system. Another one of your world famous strawmen, I'm afraid.


But would you like to tell me how the scientific community had the right answer [according to you, a rigid interpretation of Genesis] before any evidence was ever gathered, then got the wrong one by actually employing the scientific method?

 

[6days]

......we can see that I'm talking about evidence, not a belief system. Another one of your world famous strawmen, I'm afraid.

Yes Greg...you ARE talking about your belief system.

We are discussing data showing the ability of organisms to adapt or even 'speciate' rapidly.

My interpretation of the data is that if fish can adapt so rapidly, it is evidence explaining the wide diversity of life fitting with what God tells us in His Word.

Your interpretation of the data is that if a fish can adapt so rapidly, it is evidence that a fish could become a fisherman.

 

[Jose Fly]

"Before our very eyes" the Biblical model of rapid adaptation is confirmed

Where is "rapid adaptation" described in the Bible?

proclaims atheist Richard Dawkins. Er....actually in his book 'Greatest Show'

Richard Dawkins said that rapid adaptation confirms the "Biblical model"? Where did he say that?

he claims rapid adaptation (caused by a loss of genetic information) is evolution "before our very eyes".

You mean that "genetic information" that you admitted you have no idea how to measure?

He is discussing how elephants now are tuskless, or have much shorter tusks than elephants of 150 years ago. Dawkins example would really be common ancestry beliefs in reverse.

????????? You're not making any sense.

Elephants loosing their tusks ("evolution in action" claim) is a really just another example of the Biblical model. We see the beauty and majesty of God's creation all around. We also see the effects of the curse in extinctions, genetic diseases, and loss of pre-existing genetic information.

Where in the Bible does it say anything about elephants losing tusks?

 

[Jose Fly]

But 99% of what passes for science today has nothing to do with investigating evidence in an impartial manner and drawing conclusions based on quantifiable, instrumental observations made during objective experimentation. It's politics and propaganda designed to push forward leftist sociopolitical agendas, not the least of which is the killing of God in the minds of the public.

99%? Wow. I must be missing the meetings where my colleagues are planning all this stuff and ensuring that all of us implement this conspiracy. :chuckle:

 

[Clete]

99%? Wow. I must be missing the meetings where my colleagues are planning all this stuff and ensuring that all of us implement this conspiracy. :chuckle:

No one said a word about any conspiracy. Trying reading something you don't already agree with once in a while.