:first:
ECT Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!
- Thread starter ZacharyB
- Start date
- Status
:first:
The two sides of the same coin is a good analogy, but the repentance is a change of mind...believing (faith).
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ask Mr. Religion
☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) 	
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
This is not an uncommon view for those that assume those in Adam possess the desires and affections for the good before being quickened (renegerated) from their dire state in Adam.
View attachment 26651
View attachment 26652
Per the Reformed view, one must be alive before they can think enough to believe. The unregenerated are not able to reach for the life preserver when they are actually quite dead at the bottom of the ocean. Being quickened to life enables them to believe and recognize their need to repent.
AMR
Yes, I know, and that is undoubtedly our biggest point of contention. But, God has said man is without excuse, and your belief gives him one.
The Word of God is without contradiction. The Word of God does not teach truths that contradict one another. The truth is understood when apparent contradictions are reconciled. Any seeming contradictory truths are the result of our lack of insight.
Tithing is Old Testament and not commanded for Christians; only one baptism which is believers baptism by immersion; saved by faith to do good works; the timing of the rapture is not revealed.
Tithing, child baptism, saved by works were introduced by men for their convenience ( Eph 4:14).
Cross Reference
New member
UH, Sorry, but, for one to be unregenerated is to be born again. One could never be born again until Jesus resurrected. cf John 20:22.
Right Divider
Body part
:rotfl:
Luk 10:3-4 KJV Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. (4) Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
Luk 22:35-38 KJV And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. (36) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (37) For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. (38) And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
The Lord sometimes CHANGES His instructions. Those two sets of instructions are contradictory.
The same things goes for the Lord's dispensations, things change and some instructions for different dispensations are contradictory.
Right Divider
Body part
No, it isn't.
Luk 22:35-46 KJV And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. (36) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (37) For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. (38) And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. (39) And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. (40) And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation. (41) And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, (42) Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. (43) And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. (44) And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (45) And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow, (46) And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.
Right Divider
Body part
They are still contradictory.
Stan, have you ever watched a movie or read a book that contained a plot twist?
If so, then you know that what is true in one portion of it is not necessarily true later on. Does that make either part untrue? NO!
So why, when we say (and then show) that there are contradictions between what Paul says and what the Twelve say, you say "Oh, there's no contradiction there, it all means the same thing," when it clearly does not?
The problem is that you think that things that are true in some situations are always true, when in other situations they're not true.
For example, I place a ball on a table.
A true statement would be that the ball is on the table, and not on the floor. But then I take the ball off of the table, and put int on the floor. Now I can make another true statement, the ball is on the floor, and not the table. Both statements are true... AT DIFFERENT TIMES, yet if they were true at the same time, they would contradict.
You and people like you try to force everything in the Bible to be true AT THE SAME TIME. I and people like me (Mid-Acts Dispensationalists), recognize that certain things in the Bible are true at different times, which allows us to read the Bible PLAINLY, AS-IS!
No forcing things to say the same thing when they clearly don't.
There's that term again. "Reconciling" two passages that contradict is like putting a square peg in a round hole. IT DOESN'T WORK!
Why not just accept what each scripture says at face value, and try to figure out WHY they say different things?!
:nono: You've got it backwards.
Your lack of insight into the overall big picture is what causes you to think that scriptures need to be "reconciled" with each other.
Shift your paradigm of thinking, Stan. I can't do it for you.
Using your method of reading the Bible, I can show you that tithing should be done by "Christians."
In fact, you should sell all you have if you're a Christian, and give it to the poor, and follow Christ.
The thing is, it's not just the Old Testament that teaches to tithe. The New Testament does too.
But that would be dishonest of me, because it would only reinforce your paradigm of thinking, which would be counterproductive.
Stan, did you know that Paul and Peter (and the other Eleven) argued over what is doctrine?
If not, or you think that they didn't, then You need to read Paul's Epistles again.
[MENTION=15338]Right Divider[/MENTION] is better at addressing this, so I'll let him handle it, but basically, there is no water involved in being baptised into Christ. NONE.
Are works required?
Do you mean pre-trib vs mid-trib vs post-trib rapture? or do you mean when it will happen in general?
Tithing was a requirement of the Mosaic law, and one had to keep the Mosaic law to be saved. That's salvation by works.
Child baptism is a Catholic ritual not found in scripture.
Here's the deal, EVERY ISSUE you just mentioned is resolved (not reconciled, resolved)simply by understanding ONE SINGLE PASSAGE in the Bible.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
In my extended absence from TOL, I’ve spent much time considering the futility of conversing with others whose epistemics are corrupted by their wide array of presuppositions and life experiences that have formed their thought processes as well as the ultimate subject matter they have imbibed as alleged objective truth and/or fact.
More than ever, I’m convinced that Modernism itself (and the dozens of dozens of subsequent “-isms” extant in culture) and the entropy of low-context language have provided an “imperfect storm” of exponential lack within hearts and minds that is embraced as true reality.
The vast majority of all arguments is because so few know or understand the meanings of words and their relation to grammatical forms that are at odds with the corrupted epistemics that have resulted. I’ve traced several major culprits and outlined them in sequence for catechesis.
The adverbial aspects of all the “whats” are all displaced as wrong “hows”, “whys”, and “to/for whoms”, etc. It all comes from the default dichotomy of “Text-to-Reader” versus “Reader-to-Text” in translational theory. And the fact that all Greek nouns are anarthrous must be considered to understand verbs and their various forms leading to participles throughout the inspired NT text.
Though there is a dependence in cultures with limited literacy to necessarily employ “text-to-reader” understandings, in highly literate cultures (or at least the availability of such) there must be an increasing employment of “reader-to-text” understanding of access to translated writings to be able to consider forms to shape meanings rather than a entitled default demand by recipients of a translation to have perverted presuppositions from false foundations of both form (grammar) and meaning (semantics).
In these threads, few have any real foundational understanding of what individual words themselves mean from their pre-translation source, nor do they have any idea how grammatical forms affect overall meaning. Thus, English conceptually transforms many nouns into conceptually functional verbs.
Faith is most often thought of as “believING”, when it’s a noun. The same is acutely true for repentance (metanoia), which is virtually never considered as anything but the verb “repentING”. So repentance is seldom truly recognized as the thing as state of being and condition from the action/activity of God Himself by grace moving upon human hearts.
And if (Greek anarthrous) nouns are not properly understood as referring to qualitative characteristics and functional inward activity of that person/place/thing, then the verb poieo will never be understood as interrogative of the quality of the source OF any/all actions resulting from the noun’s internal activity coming forth as the action with resulting acts.
Faith does the believing. Faith is the thing given by God. It comes out of the report (not the initiative act of hearing by man) by means of the explicit Word of God/Christ. Faith has all qualitative characteristics, aspects, facets, and functional activity AS A NOUN to accomplish believING. Man only believes because He is given the thing that does the believING.
Just as a person cannot call someone on a cellular network without a cell phone, and it is the phone that is doing the activity of calling but the person “has” the phone and is thus calling. No one can believe salvifically unless there is THE faith from THE report that comes by means of GOD’S Word. Any other rhema/ta and report bring A faith that is not particularly and articularly THE faith.
So when others refer to sin or evil without a comprehensive understanding of forms and terms for Hamartiology, Ponerology, and a biblical Theodicy, they will always be conducting themselves with erroneous presuppositions in ignorance, arrogance, and heterodoxy from theological illiteracy.
Open Theists and many others have an entire foundational misapprehension of truth as error because of this. It’s a core epistemological issue, built upon a fundamental ontological lack (hypo- underlies epi-, so the quality or lack thereof in epistemics is determined by the quality or lack thereof in the individual hypostasis).
One cannot tell someone else something that conflicts with their entire foundational epistemics without conflict and rejection. This is why all the know-nothings on TOL can’t find their way to the truth of Biblical Monergism and proper understanding of Causation for all things, and virtually all other theological anomalies represented here.
There’s a way that seems right to a man, but the ends thereof are the ways of death.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Yup.
Faith is the sub-stance of things hoped for.
Jesus made quite a stance, wouldn't you say?
heir
TOL Subscriber
The Bible says a lot of different things.
NO, there is verse after verse that say the exact opposite when compared to one another. Take Acts 10:35 KJV and Titus 3:5 KJV. Only a person with a religious agenda would argue that those say the same thing.
The truth is understood when you allow words to mean what they say, as they say it and to whom recognizing that while all of the Bible is for us, it's not all to us.
Oh dear. The one baptism to us today has NOTHING to do with water. It is identification into Christ's death (Romans 6:3-4 KJV) BY one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV) and happens the moment one trusts the Lord believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV). In fact, water baptizing today is to endevour NOT to keep the unity of the Spirit that Paul beseeches us to keep (Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV).
Amen.
EXCELLENT post.
"Loving Jesus" saves no one, has saved no one, wolfie.
And show some respect to the Saviour-it is the Lord Jesus Christ;only His enemies referred to Him as "Jesus," His name in humiliation, while he walked the earth. Memorize 2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV.
Made up, spin, dishonesty.
Sell all you have.
Fraud, as not all of the book is about you, referring to you, or for your obedience, self righteous poser.
One of the underlying foundations of 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, is recognizing that, yes, there are divisions in scripture, despite protests/cries to the contrary. And where this interpretative approach to understanding the scriptures "comes out on top," is that, if you recognize those divisions/distinctions, considering when the scripture in view is written, to whom, and what went before, and after, contradictions, conflicting instructions/doctrine need not be "splained away," but make sense. Being a former Roman Catholic, the religious prostitute known as the Roman Catholic Organization is the prime example, of failure to rightly divide the word of truth, as it "follows Peter," as its apostle, its foundation being the Lord Jesus Christ's primary ministry to "the little flock," in the prophetic program, under the law, which, yes, conflicts, despite more protests/cries to the contrary, with the doctrine as given to the apostle Paul, "the apostle to the Gentiles"(Romans 11:13 KKJV), under the mystery program.
Folks-Not all of the book is specifically written to you/me, is about you/me, or is it for our obedience. Get that straight, and your blood pressure will go down. Get honest with yourself- see/admit the, yes, contradictions/conflicts that are there, if you do not comprehend/employ the right division interpretative approach. I/those that recognize those divisions need not apologize to others, whether it be to atheists, Muslims, Catholics, JW's................who cry, "Look at all the conflicting doctrine in Christianity!!!!!You cannot agree!!!!"
Again:http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-s-children-of-the-devil-Cain-Jr-s-What-sins
- Status