ECT Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!
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Jerry Shugart
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As usual you just ignored what I said earlier about the Jews who were water baptized. Before any of those who lived under the law could be baptized with water they had to believe, as witnessed by the following exchange between Philip and the eunuch:
"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:36-37).
Before the eunuch was baptized with water he was already "born of God" because he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God..For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4-5).
There can be no doubt that the eunuch received eternal life and was "born of God" before he was baptized with water so we can know that being baptized with water does not contribute in any way to anyone being saved. If you are born of God you would understand these things but unfortunately you remain a natural man who is unable to understand spiritual things.
This is way above your head and that is why you said nothing about those facts.
oatmeal
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Show me
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You are the one who says that the Lord Jesus was wrong when He said the following to the Jews who lived under the law:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
According to your false teaching which denies those words of the Savior His words by themselves were not sufficient to bring spiritual life to any Jew who lived under the lawbecause they could not be saved apart from works.
David was a Jew and he lived under the law and here is what Paul said about his justification in the eyes of the Lord:
"However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 'Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them" (Ro.4:5-8).
Paul was quoting David who was speaking of himself when he said the following:
"Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin" (Ps.32:5).
Of course you cannot even understand these simple things because you have not been born of the Spirit so you cannot understand spiritual things:
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).
Perhaps one of these days you will realize your need for a Savior and you will actually start believing the words of the Savior spoken to those who lived undrr the law:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).
What did the Lord REQUIRE of the Jews, Jerry, as well as anyone who affiliated themselves with the Jews? :think:
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Why did He refuse righteous works under the Gospel of Grace? Eph. 2:8-9
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
I believe the answer is there.
Fear and obedience before the Cross, and Mercy and Grace after the Cross.
Yes, His own chosen peculiar people. Of course more is required of them.
I find this interesting, but can't figure out why. :idunno:
It sounds like nonsense to me. All covenants with God are "Conditional"
Jesus has you to proclaim who his enemies are?
Unfortunately, Jesus never told the Jews who lived under the law that those who "believe" and nothing more are saved. Salvation by Faith Alone is a lie. It is an invention of men
musterion
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The covenant He made with Abraham was not. There was no condition he had to meet or continue to meet for it to be valid.
Are you Catholic or Eastern Orthodox? That is their belief.
PneumaPsucheSoma
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PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
^^^^ This! ^^^^
musterion
Well-known member
Did producing an offspring out of his own will, instead of waiting upon the promised heir, negate the covenant?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
As usual you refuse to believe what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the law before the Cross:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6;47).
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
According to you the Lord's words were not sufficient to bring spiritual life to the Jews who lived under the law because in addition to faith those people had to do works of obedience!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6;47).
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
Do you know what it means to "live under the Law", Jerry?
Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.
Why do you pick and choose which words our Lord spoke....which were LIFE?
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Why do you refuse to believe what the Lord says here?
John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
I am not big on personal opinions and personal interpretations of scripture. But my opinion, for what its worth, is that every new covenant replaces the previous one, for each one encompasses more and more people. There are six covenants you know, from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to David the Jesus - two people, a family, a people, the twelve tribes, a kingdom, the whole world.
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