Proof from the Bible that God is In Time

[godrulz]

Psalm 119:105
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.

-----------------

You aren't the light. That's what I'm saying.

Tell me something I don't know. This does not mean that we should not have biblical convictions about the One who is the Truth, Light, Life, Way.

 

[Lighthouse]

Your answer is nonsense. You simply believe that God isn't great enough to know everything before it happens... it might seem impossible to you, but the impossible is simple to God. God knew the end from the beginning, whether your 'logical' mind can understand His Greatness or not.

We never said God isn't big enough, we said the future doesn't exist. It's not God that's limited, it's time.

I disagree, obviously.

Then show me how they say what you claim.

I believe that God is so great that He knows the end of EVERYTHING before time began.

And the Scripture upon which you base this?

What's the problem?

Because Adam named them. God knowing what a man will do doesn't preclude his freedom to do so.

:doh:

Did you even read the question? God brought the animals before Adam to see what Adam would name them. This implies God did not know what Adam would name them and wanted to find out.

Sorry, but I can't prove a negative.

Coward.

How does that take away our freedom? We make choices, but God already knows what we will choose. He knows, but He doesn't reveal what He knows, unless it would benefit men to know.

Answer the question, Ken. Can you choose differently than what God knows you will choose?

God INCLUDES us in His plan. What do you think God was busy making sure the clouds stayed in the sky so He gave the reins to Adam for a minute?

I never said He didn't include us. What of it?

Job 37:16

16 Do you know how the clouds are balanced,
Those wondrous works of Him who is perfect in knowledge?

Job 36:4
4 For truly my words are not false;
One who is perfect in knowledge is with you.

Psalms 147:5
5 Great is our Lord, and mighty in power;
His understanding is infinite.

1 John 3:20

20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.

Do you believe God knows things that don't exist? Does God know the number of hairs on each individual unicorn? Does He know how many eggs the Easter Bunny is going to lay next year?

The Hebrew does NOT say, "before they spring forth I tell you of them." It says, that they "are sprouting and I tell you of them."

The translation you offer is just another example of how translators are influenced by Platonic Presupposition.

You're OV? Cool.

If God were subject to time, it would be His god. :nono:

Time is subject to God because it is an attribute of His existence, not one of His creations.

He is not subject to the things He creates.He knows all time, even the beginning and end of it.

Do you have Scripture for either of these statements? Where does the Bible say God created time? And where does it say He knows all time to the end all the way from the beginning?

 

[sky.]

Do you believe God knows things that don't exist? Does God know the number of hairs on each individual unicorn? Does He know how many eggs the Easter Bunny is going to lay next year?

It wouldn't surprise me if open theism has taught you all about unicorns and easter bunnies. I notice none of you address the Scriptures that are given to you. Perhaps you all treat the Bible like a comic book.

-----------------------------------

Isaiah 40:12-14

12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand,

Measured heaven with a span

And calculated the dust of the earth in a measure?

Weighed the mountains in scales

And the hills in a balance?

13 Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord,

Or as His counselor has taught Him?

14 With whom did He take counsel, and who instructed Him,

And taught Him in the path of justice?

Who taught Him knowledge,

And showed Him the way of understanding?

 

[Aimiel]

If God were subject to time, it would be His god. :nono:

This is illogical. You have also stooped to the Calvinistic argument that if we reject their wrong view of hyper-sovereignty that this is tantamount to having a false, non-existent God (despite affirming the same triune truths about Him?!).

You are out of your league on this one and should go back to Sesame Street vs Theology discussions.

How dare you say I have a non-existent, false god over debatable issues that are not denials of omniscience, etc. Endless time is as eternal as timelessness (whatever that means).

I don't buy Calvinism nor do I see any sense in your answer to God being subservient to time in your view of Him. If He were limited by time, it would be His god. It isn't. :duh:

 

[chatmaggot]

If He were limited by time, it would be His god. It isn't. :duh:

You continue to make this claim. Why do you think that if God experiences events in a sequential order then He would then no longer be God?

When you make the statement "...limited by time..." you seem to be making a vague statement that can be interpreted in several ways.

Is God limited by time in that He does not have a past? If God has a past, then God experiences time as we do. If the past exists to God in the same sense that our present exists to God, then is God right now experiencing the worldwide flood?

If the flood is a past event to God, then God isn't "outside of time" for if He were not subject to time or outside of time or existing in an eternal now, then all events that happen would appear to God in the same manner. Me typing on this computer would be no different than Balaam being scolded by his donkey in Gods view.

 

[Aimiel]

You continue to make this claim. Why do you think that if God experiences events in a sequential order then He would then no longer be God?

If God didn't know the future, exhaustively, then He would just be guessing, regarding prophecy. He knows the end from the beginning. He knows what will happen. He doesn't wait for the headlines. He is God. Man's steps are ordered by Him.

When you make the statement "...limited by time..." you seem to be making a vague statement that can be interpreted in several ways.

He isn't a wait-and-see kinda' guy, He is God; and He knows the fingerprints of our great-great-grandchildren before we're born.

Is God limited by time in that He does not have a past?

God is the same: yesterday, today and forever. He isn't changed by anything. He is The Ancient of Days, but that is to explain eternity to the mind of one who experiences days and times and seasons.

If God has a past, then God experiences time as we do. If the past exists to God in the same sense that our present exists to God, then is God right now experiencing the worldwide flood?

God has been, is now and always will be the same. Our experience (time/space) isn't anywhere near equal to The One Who sits upon the circle of the earth, which is time, a mere bubble, with a beginning and an end, which He created for our experience.

If the flood is a past event to God, then God isn't "outside of time" for if He were not subject to time or outside of time or existing in an eternal now, then all events that happen would appear to God in the same manner. Me typing on this computer would be no different than Balaam being scolded by his donkey in Gods view.

It isn't possible for us to even begin to comprehend the vast scope of His Existence. He is eternal and has no limits, spatial or temporal. We have a specific finite number of brain cells and take up a speck of dust of space compared to The One Who is everywhere and everywhen all at once. We are not even similar to ants trying to look through through the magnifying glass to understand the human looking at us on the sidewalk, since He is so much above us that we cannot even see Him. He is above the speed of light, He is above time and space as we know it. He not only created this universe but He is beyond the capability of His creation to fathom. No one has seen Him and lived, because if anyone did see Him, they wouldn't dare draw another breath in this mess, compared to how beautiful and holy He is. We'd simply surrender our flesh to be with Him in Paradise. It is above us, beyond our comprehension and temporal beings simply cannot grasp or experience His wonders. To partake of Him requires spirit, which is above flesh far more than the human is above the ant. It is another realm altogether which we cannot begin to understand from an earthly perspective.

 

[chatmaggot]

If God didn't know the future, exhaustively, then He would just be guessing, regarding prophecy. He knows the end from the beginning. He knows what will happen. He doesn't wait for the headlines. He is God. Man's steps are ordered by Him.He isn't a wait-and-see kinda' guy, He is God; and He knows the fingerprints of our great-great-grandchildren before we're born.God is the same: yesterday, today and forever. He isn't changed by anything. He is The Ancient of Days, but that is to explain eternity to the mind of one who experiences days and times and seasons. God has been, is now and always will be the same. Our experience (time/space) isn't anywhere near equal to The One Who sits upon the circle of the earth, which is time, a mere bubble, with a beginning and an end, which He created for our experience.It isn't possible for us to even begin to comprehend the vast scope of His Existence. He is eternal and has no limits, spatial or temporal. We have a specific finite number of brain cells and take up a speck of dust of space compared to The One Who is everywhere and everywhen all at once. We are not even similar to ants trying to look through through the magnifying glass to understand the human looking at us on the sidewalk, since He is so much above us that we cannot even see Him. He is above the speed of light, He is above time and space as we know it. He not only created this universe but He is beyond the capability of His creation to fathom. No one has seen Him and lived, because if anyone did see Him, they wouldn't dare draw another breath in this mess, compared to how beautiful and holy He is. We'd simply surrender our flesh to be with Him in Paradise. It is above us, beyond our comprehension and temporal beings simply cannot grasp or experience His wonders. To partake of Him requires spirit, which is above flesh far more than the human is above the ant. It is another realm altogether which we cannot begin to understand from an earthly perspective.

So in summary you cannot answer my questions. Instead of addressing my questions you write an essay full of cliches.

In regards to the statement:

If God didn't know the future, exhaustively, then He would just be guessing, regarding prophecy.

Or God is powerful enough to make certain things come to pass and other things are conditional (like the Nineveh example) as it states in Jeremiah 18.

If God says that something is going to happen when He knows that it isn't going to happen, then He lies. You are advocating a God that is not powerful enough to make a rooster crow when He wants it to crow. Instead, you insist that God planned from eternity past the exact time a rooster crows.

 

[Aimiel]

I see God making everything come to pass. I hear nothing but cliches from the 'God is in Time' side of this argument. Him being outside time makes sense to me. I'm really sorry that you don't see answers in my reply. I honestly can't make any sense of what you just said about the rooster. God only has a little power, not ALL power?!? A god who is subject to time and space isn't God, he is a cheap imitation. God doesn't wear a watch.

 

[sky.]

If God didn't know the future, exhaustively, then He would just be guessing, regarding prophecy. He knows the end from the beginning. He knows what will happen. He doesn't wait for the headlines. He is God. Man's steps are ordered by Him.He isn't a wait-and-see kinda' guy, He is God; and He knows the fingerprints of our great-great-grandchildren before we're born.God is the same: yesterday, today and forever. He isn't changed by anything. He is The Ancient of Days, but that is to explain eternity to the mind of one who experiences days and times and seasons. God has been, is now and always will be the same. Our experience (time/space) isn't anywhere near equal to The One Who sits upon the circle of the earth, which is time, a mere bubble, with a beginning and an end, which He created for our experience.It isn't possible for us to even begin to comprehend the vast scope of His Existence. He is eternal and has no limits, spatial or temporal. We have a specific finite number of brain cells and take up a speck of dust of space compared to The One Who is everywhere and everywhen all at once. We are not even similar to ants trying to look through through the magnifying glass to understand the human looking at us on the sidewalk, since He is so much above us that we cannot even see Him. He is above the speed of light, He is above time and space as we know it. He not only created this universe but He is beyond the capability of His creation to fathom. No one has seen Him and lived, because if anyone did see Him, they wouldn't dare draw another breath in this mess, compared to how beautiful and holy He is. We'd simply surrender our flesh to be with Him in Paradise. It is above us, beyond our comprehension and temporal beings simply cannot grasp or experience His wonders. To partake of Him requires spirit, which is above flesh far more than the human is above the ant. It is another realm altogether which we cannot begin to understand from an earthly perspective.

Excellent answer.

 

[sky.]

I see God making everything come to pass. I hear nothing but cliches from the 'God is in Time' side of this argument. Him being outside time makes sense to me. I'm really sorry that you don't see answers in my reply. I honestly can't make any sense of what you just said about the rooster. God only has a little power, not ALL power?!? A god who is subject to time and space isn't God, he is a cheap imitation. God doesn't wear a watch.

Their questions show a juvenile understanding of God and the Bible. It's a waste of time.

 

[Shasta]

Time may be relative for us but in essence it is a succession of events. If it is not then God might as well have said ______ but even when He spoke of Himself in terms designating past present and future. His wrath was poured out sometimes, His mercy another. Those were expressions not of changelessness but of duration and of and succession of events. At the same time, He calls Himself I AM which appears to contradict this. Before matter was created there was no time, or space and God was there. We cannot comprehend this any more than the Flatlanders could existence outside the plane. The Trinity exhibits the very same quality. God is in His being at least a paradox existing both in and outside the plane.

 

[chatmaggot]

If you are unfamiliar with the roosting crowing example I suggest you read the Battle Royale between Bob Enyart and Sam Lamerson. Sam could not understand how Jesus knew that shortly after Peter denied Him...a rooster would crow. Sam argued that God had to have ordained from eternity past the rooster to crow at that very moment. Bob argued instead that God has the power to make a rooster crow when He wants it to crow.

Let me ask my question again.

If God says that something is going to happen and even gives the number of days in which it is going to happen knowing that it is not going to happen, does that make God a liar?

 

[Aimiel]

If God says that something is going to happen and even gives the number of days in which it is going to happen knowing that it is not going to happen, does that make God a liar?

God doesn't make errors. If He said it was day right now, the sun would have to come up. He cannot violate His Character. He is Holy. God can make a rooster out of nothing. He also knows the number of feathers on a rooster that will be born ten years from now. He is Omniscient. Saying He doesn't know the outcome until something happens is saying He isn't God. Time doesn't restrict Him at all.

 

[godrulz]

Excellent answer.

The blind leading the blind. Aimiel and you are dead wrong on this issue (but still fellow believers).

 

[Lighthouse]

It wouldn't surprise me if open theism has taught you all about unicorns and easter bunnies.

:bang:

I notice none of you address the Scriptures that are given to you. Perhaps you all treat the Bible like a comic book.

Isaiah 40:12-14

12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand,

Measured heaven with a span

And calculated the dust of the earth in a measure?

Weighed the mountains in scales

And the hills in a balance?

13 Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord,

Or as His counselor has taught Him?

14 With whom did He take counsel, and who instructed Him,

And taught Him in the path of justice?

Who taught Him knowledge,

And showed Him the way of understanding?

This verse does not contradict the OV. And I don't see how you could possibly think it does.

I don't buy Calvinism nor do I see any sense in your answer to God being subservient to time in your view of Him. If He were limited by time, it would be His god. It isn't. :duh:

Are you unable to answer my question?

 

[chatmaggot]

God doesn't make errors. If He said it was day right now, the sun would have to come up. He cannot violate His Character. He is Holy. God can make a rooster out of nothing. He also knows the number of feathers on a rooster that will be born ten years from now. He is Omniscient. Saying He doesn't know the outcome until something happens is saying He isn't God. Time doesn't restrict Him at all.

I never claimed that God made errors and you avoided my question again.

Did God say that Nineveh would me overthrown in 40 days?

Was Nineveh overthrown in 40 days?

If Nineveh was not overthrown in 40 days just as God had said it would be then does that make God a liar?

If God said that Nineveh would be overthrown in 40 days and He knew that it wasn't going to be overthrown in 40 days does that make God a liar?

 

[Aimiel]

God didn't lie. He would have destroyed Nineveh had they not repented. He knew Jonah had the courage to preach to them. He just had to kick-start that courage. Some people take more encouragement than others to apply themselves.

 

[sky.]

God has a decretive will and a permissive will nothing happens outside of His sovereign will. That is all you're getting from me. This line of questioning is out of line when you continue to ask "if God is a liar".

 

[sky.]

:bang:





This verse does not contradict the OV. And I don't see how you could possibly think it does.


Are you unable to answer my question?

You are unable to HEAR the answer. Keep banging your head maybe you'll rattle loose the false teaching that has been implanted in your mind.

 

[ThePresbyteers]

What happens when God ISN"T in time?