And those "masters" would be whom?
Proof from the Bible that God is In Time
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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As if you don't know.
Just like I thought: baseless accusations and ad hominem attacks.
Just like I thought: baseless accusations and ad hominem attacks.
"ad-homs" ? against God. No, that's your claim to fame.
I meant against me, you idiot.
Interesting but still.
Oh my the "angels" Tamboras and the like have introduced themselves.
Shasta
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On what basis do you make the claim that time is more fundamental that space? It is certainly not true in the universe we live in. An equal case could be made for matter energy and space without which the universe would not exist.
Duration, sequence, succession (time=concept, not a created 'thing') predates material creation biblically, logically (Gen. 1:1; Ps. 90:2; Rev. 1:4).
J.R. Lukas 'A Treatise on time and space' makes this claim and gives complicated proofs for it.
Shasta
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No it is concept and not a concrete thing but concepts and the words associated with them do identify something real which in the case of time can be measured. When God created the universe as it is today He created time. God did not make a big room (space), set objects in it (matter) and set them in regular motion (time) . He spoke it into existence. Before existence was not emptiness but non-existence. You cannot impose any definition of time not even that of succession and duration on non-existence. There is no way to divide such a time stream into discrete units of change.
Taking the one event we are sure of, creation, and going backwards will never lead us to the kind of time you envision. Starting with creation (which is impossible since it is an an effect not a cause ) and labeling the first "moment" as 1, the before would be -2, and the other antecedents -3, -4, -5.. . .-10000000 we could never find the beginning of a linear sequence.
the paradox cannot be resolved. It is not a matter of omnipotence because it is irrational. You cannot divide infinity into parts because each part of an infinite set is also infinite.
This is what happens when you try to impose a temporal model on a non-temporal state. It ends up being nonsense.
Furthermore we know that whether or not time is basic the fact remains that is can be greatly affected by other forces in the material world. Unless you posit that God had His own sort of time system He would be affected as well. God riding along with us on the roller coasters of time would experience alterations of time (speeding up and slowing down) because of gravity and velocity. Also since space is also a feature of time-space-and energy and the universe is finite we might suppose that God is as well.
Shasta
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Yeah He did a pretty good job making the universe, though I understand it has an expiration date on it. Oh well I read somewhere He has a new project in the works...can't wait to see it
Shasta
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I agree. I brought up those scientific issues not to define God but to show some of what I see as the inherent flaws in the God-in-time theory. I think the idea locks God and the time space continuum so closely together that God's consciousness, actions, and experience can be affected and altered by creation
Aimiel
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Exactly. He isn't 'locked' into His creation. It is separate from Him, even though He is everywhere and anywhere that He wants/needs to be. He isn't evil, though He created it. He's never sinned, though He allows sin. He has no darkness in Him, though He created it. He isn't hampered by a clock, even though He created time.
Where do you fools get this idea that time was created?
Shasta
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How do you define time?
The word we use to describe sequential-ness. In other words, events happen and we use the word "time" to describe the happening of events.
Before God created the Heavens and the Earth...He existed. If God created time then God existed before time. How long did God exist before He created time? That is a nonsensical question!
God experiences sequential-ness and does not exist in the past and does not see the past as He sees the present. God is not now having a conversation with Moses at Sinai right now. That is past to us and to God. If God was "outside" of time then God would see all events in the same way and be as present in the past as He is in the present.
God does not see all of eternity from above as a parade as some have described it. God is not now witnessing the banishment of Adam and Eve from the Garden.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Hardly. It's merely a temporal being with a finite number of brain cells trying to fit a timeless God who is Infinite into his tiny little imagined universe. God is more than space and time, and everything that exists comes from Him. If He were subject to time, time would be god, not The Lord.
That's pretty much what, "... the same: yesterday, today and forever," says to me.
He can see everything even before it happens, since He is Omniscient. Time doesn't restrict His Vision as it does those who are subject to it.
Is God viewing the birth of John the Baptist in the same way that He is viewing the birth of a baby in a hospital at this moment? Are these two events indistinguishable from Gods perspective?
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