Poll: Do you agree with this picture?

Poll: Do you agree with this picture?

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Clete said:
This is verbatim what Bob Enyart teaches - verbatim!
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No, it isn't. I wish it were!
Bob is as strong as anyone I've ever heard on the idea that you cannot under any circumstances lose your salvation.
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If that were true, he would not teach that we are graffed in to anything (Romans 11:21-22 KJV).

Romans 11 does not teach that any member of the Body of Christ can be cut off. It's a warning that if God can stop Israel's program then He can stop the Gentile's program too. When God cut off Israel, He didn't cut off anyone who believed! He didn't cut off Paul or James or John or Peter or any other of the Twelve or any of their converts, all of whom were Jews and members of Israel when God cut Israel off. Why then would you presume that Romans 11 is talking about cutting off believers and take that as an excuse to create a doctrine that requires Paul to have preached two gospels, one in the book of Romans and another everywhere else I presume?!
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You have a problem as being "cut off" was eternal in nature for those of Israel who rejected the Lord’s earthly ministry (John 15:6 KJV) and it would be the consequence for these Romans to whom Paul wrote the letter also UNLESS they continued in the goodness of God.

The Romans had a standing in the olive tree by faith (Romans 11:20 KJV) and were resting in the law making their boast of God (Romans 2:17 KJV), but the tree was coming down (so to speak). Israel had fallen (Romans 11:11 KJV) and these Romans needed to continue in the goodness of God or they too would be cut off (Romans 11:21-22 KJV).

There was only one way for them to continue in the goodness of God and that was to be established into the Body of Christ by Paul's my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret since the world began, but now (at that time) was made manifest (Romans 16:25-27 KJV). That's why Paul "longed to see" them (Romans 1:11 KJV). He was "ready to preach the gospel to you that are in Rome also" (Romans 1:15-17 KJV! And all through the Acts period, we see Paul gathering the remnant into the Body. That is the context of Romans 11 and the "grafted in". It has nothing to do with you, me or anyone else today in the dispensation of the grace of God (Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV)!
There is an axe. Anyone familiar with Bob's teaching can see it plain as day.
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I'm familiar with what Bob teaches and I’ll use his and other religious men's wrong conclusions all day long to testify the gospel of the grace of God and make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery. I charge you, him and anyone else who is adding to the confounding, to teach no other doctrine (1 Timothy 1:3 KJV).
 
V

Vintage68

New member
With all of this back and forth about who teaches what, I don't have a clue as to what you guys believe, it's all about some guy named Bob Enyart.
My question of anyone, and everyone is,
What is the Gospel
Because it sounds like everyone believes it to be, The Gospel of Salvation.

My belief is, if you do not know what the Gospel actually is, how then can you preach the Gospel, it then all becomes what you believe the Gospel to be, and if you are wrong you are leading people off into the desert.

So again, "What is the Gospel" what shall be preached in all the world?
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Vintage68 said:
With all of this back and forth about who teaches what, I don't have a clue as to what you guys believe, it's all about some guy named Bob Enyart.
My question of anyone, and everyone is,
What is the Gospel
Because it sounds like everyone believes it to be, The Gospel of Salvation.

My belief is, if you do not know what the Gospel actually is, how then can you preach the Gospel, it then all becomes what you believe the Gospel to be, and if you are wrong you are leading people off into the desert.

So again, "What is the Gospel" what shall be preached in all the world?
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1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV


Ephesians 1:13 KJV - Ephesians 1:14 KJV
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Vintage68 said:
With all of this back and forth about who teaches what, I don't have a clue as to what you guys believe, it's all about some guy named Bob Enyart.
My question of anyone, and everyone is,
What is the Gospel
Because it sounds like everyone believes it to be, The Gospel of Salvation.

My belief is, if you do not know what the Gospel actually is, how then can you preach the Gospel, it then all becomes what you believe the Gospel to be, and if you are wrong you are leading people off into the desert.

So again, "What is the Gospel" what shall be preached in all the world?
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1 Cor 15:1-4 is what Paul said he preached as the saving Gospel to pagans, so we believe that is the salvation message to be preached today.

What do you say the saving Gospel is?

Welcome.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
heir said:
The WHY pf the cross is not in Romans 10:9-10 KJV. The gospel of your salvation (and mine) is that Christ died for our sins, and that He was buried and rose again the third day. Romans 9, 10 and 11 is about Israel's past, present (then present) and future. Romans 10:9-10 KJV is what Israel should have done, but failed to do. It is not the gospel of Christ nor the formula for our salvation. To declare it as such is biblical ignorance.

I'm not a lunatic. I am charging some that they teach no other doctrine.
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Yes, you are a lunatic if you call yourself a dispensationalist and think that the gospel is not in Romans 10 or that there is some weird third gospel that Paul taught in Romans separate and apart from what he taught elsewhere or that there is any disagreement or any other sort of disconnect or conflict between anything written in Romans vs anything written by Paul anywhere else in the bible, Corinthians or otherwise.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.​

And you're a flat out liar if you suggest, imply or insinuate that Bob Enyart or any member of his congregation would disagree with the notion that Christ died for our sins and was buried and rose again the third day.

And yes, I noticed that you failed to respond to my argument. Not that I'm surprised.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
heir said:
No, it isn't. I wish it were!
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You are a lunatic and a liar. The futher this goes the less I believe you ever once attended his church.

If that were true, he would not teach that we are graffed in to anything (Romans 11:21-22 KJV).
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Paul teaches it, therefore Bob teaches it. Paul only states it explicitly. It's not even debatable.

You have a problem as being "cut off" was eternal in nature for those of Israel who rejected the Lord’s earthly ministry (John 15:6 KJV) and it would be the consequence for these Romans to whom Paul wrote the letter also UNLESS they continued in the goodness of God.
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I have no problem. The text means what it says. Paul explicity says that even though Israel was cut off, it didn't include the believers! - Duh!

The Romans had a standing in the olive tree by faith (Romans 11:20 KJV) and were resting in the law making their boast of God (Romans 2:17 KJV), but the tree was coming down (so to speak). Israel had fallen (Romans 11:11 KJV) and these Romans needed to continue in the goodness of God or they too would be cut off (Romans 11:21-22 KJV).
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That's your doctrine, not the text.

There was only one way for them to continue in the goodness of God and that was to be established into the Body of Christ by Paul's my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret since the world began, but now (at that time) was made manifest (Romans 16:25-27 KJV). That's why Paul "longed to see" them (Romans 1:11 KJV). He was "ready to preach the gospel to you that are in Rome also" (Romans 1:15-17 KJV! And all through the Acts period, we see Paul gathering the remnant into the Body. That is the context of Romans 11 and the "grafted in". It has nothing to do with you, me or anyone else today in the dispensation of the grace of God (Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV)!
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Lunatic stupidity.

JUST READ THE TEXT!!! There's no need to jump through so many hoops because you're afraid that it might be teaching that Christians can lose their salvation, which it isn't even teaching in the first place, WHICH IT STATES AS PLAIN AS DAY!!!!

I'm familiar with what Bob teaches and I’ll use his and other religious men's wrong conclusions all day long to testify the gospel of the grace of God and make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery. I charge you, him and anyone else who is adding to the confounding, to teach no other doctrine (1 Timothy 1:3 KJV).
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I don't believe you. I think you have some stupid axe to grind with Bob. You're probably a public school teacher who got offended by something he said from the pulpit (or the equivalent) and now want to disparage him and his ministry by pulling at any convoluted straw you can think to conjure up.

The proof, as far as I'm concerned, is this feigned allegiance to the "gospel of the grace of God and make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery" which Bob Enyart is responsible for disseminating more effectively than perhaps any single other person in the last 100 years and yet you wish to discredit him and his ministry in defense of "no other doctrine".

At worst you're liar and at best, a fool. Either way, you're aren't worth another second of my time.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
intojoy said:
Prove it


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
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You're the one making a claim, you prove it. That my whole point!

No body gives a rip what your personal opinion is! You think that showing up here and stating that the Olive Tree isn't Israel means that you're right by virtue of the fact that you made the claim? What a fat waste of time it was for you to even bother typing it!

MAKE THE ARGUMENT!

Besides, the "Cultivated Olive Tree" in Romans 11 cannot be anything other than Israel. It's so plain and obvious, any third grader can read it and understand it.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
musterion said:
What in the world would cause you to say that?
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It's happened before. Bob will say something against public schools and/or public school teachers and someone in the audience throws a fit and leaves and starts some website accusing Bob of being Satan incarnate or the equivalent. And if it's not public schools its something else that someone gets offended over and they start a website accusing Bob of murdering Jon Benét Ramsey. There are lunatics everywhere and they all seem to have it out for Bob Enyart.

My point being that no one who was at all familiar with Bob's bible teaching could say what she's saying. She has some personal grudge or she's making it up as an excuse to push her weird third gospel to the Romans doctrine that no one but her has ever heard of.
 
D

Danoh

New member
I strongly disagree with heir's views on various issues including her views on Romans, Paul's supposed various gospels, and her assertion that those who do not believe what she is understanding the various passages are asserting, are not preaching Paul's gospel.

We have butted heads in the past as to these issues.

But this is a matter of the doctrine one holds to and or asserts others do, or do not, Clete; not of attacks against someone along the line you are now fully engaged in.

Thus, far, that is all heir has posted against - against what she believes are serious doctrinal errors.

You have gone way beyond that with our sister in the Lord.

Way over!

Stick to proving her wrong, or finding her right, through Scripture, on the doctrinal issues she is asserting.

And no, Israel is not the Olive Tree.

Perhaps you and heir actually agree against this much.

That is how these things go - agreement on one thing; not on another.

Clete, get back to the doctrinal issues, brother.

heir; stand your doctrinal ground until you believe otherwise, sister.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
One thing about TOL's MADs. We air our differences out in the open. You NEVER see the Reformed, Charismatics, denominationalists or cultists clanging iron against their own iron like we do.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Danoh said:
I strongly disagree with heir's views on various issues including her views on Romans, Paul's supposed various gospels, and her assertion that those who do not believe what she is understanding the various passages are asserting, are not preaching Paul's gospel.

We have butted heads in the past as to these issues.

But this is a matter of the doctrine one holds to and or asserts others do, or do not, Clete; not of attacks against someone along the line you are now fully engaged in.

Thus, far, that is all heir has posted against - against what she believes are serious doctrinal errors.

You have gone way beyond that with our sister in the Lord.

Way over!

Stick to proving her wrong, or finding her right, through Scripture, on the doctrinal issues she is asserting.

And no, Israel is not the Olive Tree.

Perhaps you and heir actually agree against this much.

That is how these things go - agreement on one thing; not on another.

Clete, get back to the doctrinal issues, brother.

heir; stand your doctrinal ground until you believe otherwise, sister.
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heir began with making fun of "Resting in Him" which she promptly admitted to not even understanding the meaning of and then launched into this Bob is preaching a false gospel nonsense. I took her personal attack personally.

However, I will do as you ask, because you asked.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Danoh,

Please explain how the cultivated olive tree spoken of in Romans 11 can be anything other than Israel. The text seems painfully clear and obvious.

Not only that but the bible repeatedly uses an olive tree as a symbol for Israel. In fact, the very first time the olive tree is used as a metaphor, its Israel that's being spoken of (Judges 9). Jeremiah states outright that God called Israel "a green olive tree, beautiful with good fruit." (Jeremiah. 11:16). The metaphor is used again in Isaiah 17 where God compares Israel to an olive tree.

So not only does the plain reading of the text of Romans 9 - 11 make no other understanding possible, the rest of Scripture lends further credence to the notion.
 
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