Paul: "If Christ be not raised your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins"

[Nanja]

This is heresy but at least you're honest. You honestly reject the savior of the world.

The only World Jesus Christ is the Saviour of, is that World He was a Surety for Heb 7:22 in the Everlasting Covenant; His Redemptive death was only for His Sheep!

Heb. 13:20-21
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


Praise the Lord!

~~~~~

 

[Robert Pate]

I've said it the best way I can. What happened at the cross was for the world or all of humanity but that still needs to be received by faith in our individual lives. Paul said we joy in God thru Jesus Christ by whom we have received the atonement. The atonement needs to be received by faith. If you don't believe in it then you are cut off from the blessing.

You might do just as well talking to a telephone pole. These two are spiritually dead.

 

[Nanja]

I've said it the best way I can. What happened at the cross was for the world or all of humanity but that still needs to be received by faith in our individual lives. Paul said we joy in God thru Jesus Christ by whom we have received the atonement. The atonement needs to be received by faith. If you don't believe in it then you are cut off from the blessing.

False gospel of works!


The Death of Christ was on behalf of all who were chosen in union with Him before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9 to have remission of sins Eph. 1:4-7: His People He came to Save from their sins Mat.1:21.


But the rest of humanity have not been represented by Christ and His Cross Work; they never were His people, but are the seed of the devil.


Mat. 13:38-39
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Mat. 13:43
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

~~~~~

 

[Brother Ducky]

I've said it the best way I can. What happened at the cross was for the world or all of humanity but that still needs to be received by faith in our individual lives. Paul said we joy in God thru Jesus Christ by whom we have received the atonement. The atonement needs to be received by faith. If you don't believe in it then you are cut off from the blessing.

I suspect that [usually, depending on context] most would use the word saved for, well, saved. That is to say bound for heaven or some such wording. You seem to be using a different definition for it. Would you please elaborate?

 

[Epoisses]

I suspect that [usually, depending on context] most would use the word saved for, well, saved. That is to say bound for heaven or some such wording. You seem to be using a different definition for it. Would you please elaborate?

The world was saved at the cross by Jesus John 3:17 John 12:47

We are saved individually when we believe in Jesus Acts 16:31 Rom. 10:9

Thus the two phases of Salvation or the objective and subjective gospel.

 

[Epoisses]

[/COLOR]

False gospel of works!


The Death of Christ was on behalf of all who were chosen in union with Him before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9 to have remission of sins Eph. 1:4-7: His People He came to Save from their sins Mat.1:21.


But the rest of humanity have not been represented by Christ and His Cross Work; they never were His people, but are the seed of the devil.


Mat. 13:38-39
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Mat. 13:43
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

~~~~~

Belief is not a work. It is a requirement to be saved. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved Acts 16:31. Not win the cosmic lottery of predestination and you will be saved.

 

[Nanja]

Belief is not a work.

False.


Believing or faith exercised in the mind of a carnal man is a work of the flesh which cannot please God Rom 8:8.


ergon, G2041:

II. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2041&t=KJV

~~~~~

 

[Epoisses]

False.


Believing or faith exercised in the mind of a carnal man is a work of the flesh which cannot please God Rom 8:8.


ergon, G2041:

II. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2041&t=KJV

~~~~~

Calvinists have to make faith a 'work' in order to sell their hogwash to the deluded masses.

Paul contrasts faith and works in almost every discourse but somehow you missed that. Faith is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and it is a gift in the most famous verse of all.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2:8,9

 

[Nanja]

Calvinists have to make faith a 'work' in order to sell their hogwash to the deluded masses.

Paul contrasts faith and works in almost every discourse but somehow you missed that. Faith is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and it is a gift in the most famous verse of all.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2:8,9

The faith of a carnal man is works.

The Faith given in New Birth is a Fruit and Gift of the Holy Spirit given in New Birth.

The carnal man vs. the Spiritual Man Rom. 8:7-9.


Only God's Children were given Grace in Union with Christ Jesus before the world began!

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

~~~~~

 

[Epoisses]

The faith of a carnal man is works.

The Faith given in New Birth is a Fruit and Gift of the Holy Spirit given in New Birth.

The carnal man vs. the Spiritual Man Rom. 8:7-9.


Only God's Children were given Grace in Union with Christ Jesus before the world began!

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

~~~~~

I don't wholly disagree with that but faith is not a light switch that gets turned at conversion. Jesus presented faith with the things of nature where it could grow and mature or weaken and die. Every man is given a measure of faith not just the elect Rom. 12:3.

 

[Nanja]

I don't wholly disagree with that but faith is not a light switch that gets turned at conversion. Jesus presented faith with the things of nature where it could grow and mature or weaken and die. Every man is given a measure of faith not just the elect Rom. 12:3.

Faith is only given by God to all His Elect when they are quickened by the Spirit Gal. 5:22, Born Again.

The every man given a measure of Faith Rom. 12:3 is exclusive to every Elect Man;
but not to the wicked:

2 Thes. 3:2
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

~~~~~

 

[Epoisses]

Faith is only given by God to all His Elect when they are quickened by the Spirit Gal. 5:22, Born Again.

The every man given a measure of Faith Rom. 12:3 is exclusive to every Elect Man;
but not to the wicked:

2 Thes. 3:2
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

~~~~~

And you just went off the road and T-boned the tree!!

Paul spoke of those who make ship-wreck of their faith implying that all are given a measure.

How could a reprobate person make ship-wreck of their faith if they were never given any to begin with?

You believe in Calvinism and reject the bible making you an unbeliever.

 

[Nanja]

And you just went off the road and T-boned the tree!!

Paul spoke of those who make ship-wreck of their faith implying that all are given a measure.

How could a reprobate person make ship-wreck of their faith if they were never given any to begin with?

You believe in Calvinism and reject the bible making you an unbeliever.

Obviously, your man-made theology does not line up with the Scriptures.
You are in rebellion to the Truth of God's Word, an infidel ;

2 Cor. 6:15
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

~~~~~

 

[Epoisses]

Obviously, your man-made theology does not line up with the Scriptures.
You are in rebellion to the Truth of God's Word, an infidel 2 Cor. 6:15.

~~~~~

Every man is given a measure of faith......deal with it!!

 

[Nanja]

Every man is given a measure of faith......deal with it!!

You are in opposition to the Truth of scriptures 2 Thes. 3:2.

~~~~~

 

[Epoisses]

You are in opposition to the Truth of scriptures 2 Thes. 3:2.

~~~~~

I'm in opposition to your false prophet Calvin. You don't defend scripture! You can't even admit that Jesus is the savior of the world. Even the Samaritans figured that out.

 

[Nanja]

You don't defend scripture! You can't even admit that Jesus is the savior of the world.

See post #318

~~~~~

 

[Brother Ducky]

The world was saved at the cross by Jesus John 3:17 John 12:47

We are saved individually when we believe in Jesus Acts 16:31 Rom. 10:9

Thus the two phases of Salvation or the objective and subjective gospel.

I assume that your use of "world" is all humans vs the physical earth or animate or inanimate objects. If that is the case, you still have not clarified what "saved" is for the world verses what "saved" is for individuals. If "world" is all humans I do not see why or how salvation could be different for individuals as individuals verses individuals as part of a group.

 

[Epoisses]

I assume that your use of "world" is all humans vs the physical earth or animate or inanimate objects. If that is the case, you still have not clarified what "saved" is for the world verses what "saved" is for individuals. If "world" is all humans I do not see why or how salvation could be different for individuals as individuals verses individuals as part of a group.

The world with all humans was saved at the cross by the death of Christ. The Salvation I receive by faith 2000 years later is the fruit of this finished work in Christ. We were saved at the cross not in our individual lives. This is what so many Christians struggle with. They see Salvation as the point in their lives when they receive the gift of Salvation but this is false. We were saved 2000 years ago by the life, death and resurrection of Christ. The OT saints looked forward to a redeemer to come but we look backwards to a redeemer who has already come and accomplished his mission.

 

[patrick jane]

See post #318

~~~~~

SEE POST #338