He will continue to add to it. The Olive Tree is Israel. Don't over think it.
Paul did not write Hebrews; we do not know who did
- Thread starter Right Divider
- Start date
With the source you copied from?
Revelation wasn't written by Paul.
Nor was Hebrews, for that matter.
Derf
Well-known member
Let's at least think it enough.
So He was not starting a building, but continuing one? One where the foundation was only recently laid, or was about to be laid? Is this a wise way to build, waiting for the foundation until other parts are built? I just can't see how Jesus' statement could be taken for a building that was started 1500 years before, and the foundation still wasn't in place.
I don't think so. Because the coincidence is too great.
This is what I observe and think. They can be shorter as they go, referring to Paul specifically. Paul doesn't talk about the Olive tree to those in Ephesus. I think I spelled it right. The doctrine given to Paul was revealed gradually. And the gifts of the Holy Spirit vanish with his books. The gifts of the Holy Spirit were for Israel to evangelize the good news of the kingdom. Having gentiles speak in their tongue was still a tool of witness. It was proof to those in Jerusalem. The letter to the Ephesians reveals the unsearchable riches of Christ. That the strangers to the covenants of promise will be holy and blameless in him. Paul might have taught that in person but he didn't include it to the proselytes in Rome, that he was bringing into grace.
15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.
Not everything was put in front of him at once. And why would it be. Upon his conversion, he preached that Jesus is the Christ.
It is not a matter of coincidence or just length to put Paul's letter's after Acts and the fall of Israel, and before Hebrews after the departure of the church. After the departure of the church, the law of Moses will come back, blindness to Israel will be lifted. There is no way that it just worked out that way. I also think Paul's letters bear witness to the risen Lord Jesus Christ appearing to him directly, the Holy Spirit guided him as much as he guided Moses in what he was to write.
This is what I observe and think. They can be shorter as they go, referring to Paul specifically. Paul doesn't talk about the Olive tree to those in Ephesus. I think I spelled it right. The doctrine given to Paul was revealed gradually. And the gifts of the Holy Spirit vanish with his books. The gifts of the Holy Spirit were for Israel to evangelize the good news of the kingdom. Having gentiles speak in their tongue was still a tool of witness. It was proof to those in Jerusalem. The letter to the Ephesians reveals the unsearchable riches of Christ. That the strangers to the covenants of promise will be holy and blameless in him. Paul might have taught that in person but he didn't include it to the proselytes in Rome, that he was bringing into grace.
15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.
Not everything was put in front of him at once. And why would it be. Upon his conversion, he preached that Jesus is the Christ.
It is not a matter of coincidence or just length to put Paul's letter's after Acts and the fall of Israel, and before Hebrews after the departure of the church. After the departure of the church, the law of Moses will come back, blindness to Israel will be lifted. There is no way that it just worked out that way. I also think Paul's letters bear witness to the risen Lord Jesus Christ appearing to him directly, the Holy Spirit guided him as much as he guided Moses in what he was to write.
Go read the "Old Testament"
Right Divider
Body part
Derf
Well-known member
I don't think that answers my question. If Jesus is going to be building a church (congregation) starting with a foundation that has something to do with a Rock, the Old Testament doesn't seem to tell me about it very well, except in future terms, because all past terms are not applicable to the thing Jesus is starting to build in His time.
Bladerunner
Active member
Nope, there is not a mention of the church in the OT......It was the mystery among others..prophecy often spoke of.
Lon
Well-known member
ἐκκλησία Ekklasia
Found in the LXX (Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament)
Leviticus 8.3: assemble (εκκλησιασον) all the gathering (συναγωγην)
Deuteronomy 9.10: the day of the assembly (εκκλησιας)
1 Kings 8.14: the assembly of Israel (εκκλησια ισραηλ)
Job 30.28: I stood and cried out in the assembly (εκκλησια)
Psalm 22.22: In the midst of the assembly (εκκλησιας) I will praise you
It is said,"you'all are the church" (assembly or whole group of us).
If we don't over-spiritualize the word, it simply means all of us and all of us gathered together. The Spiritual comes from the contexts and carries meaning in significance, not the word itself.
Right Divider
Body part
What, exactly, do you mean by "the church"?
Stephen tells us that there was a "church" in the wilderness:
Acts 7:38 (AKJV/PCE)
(7:38) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
You're very hard to follow....
The bottom line is that the church which is His body (i.e., the body of Christ) was nowhere to be found in Acts 1-8.
The Lord Jesus Christ quoted the "Old Testament" all the time. So it does. The restoration at that point was a future event. It still is. He is building his church.
Bladerunner
Active member
Ah, but the church that Jesus Built was not part of that OT past...except in prophecy and even then so obscure that nobody knew what it meant...Even today, different theologies argue over the prophecies that God gave us to guide us to the end....We know more about the future that we know about all the days of Jesus Christ on this earth. Assembly of Israel was just that..the assembly of a nation and not the assembly of church members...Also rem, the members of His Church are there in spirit and not bodily until the Rapture happens and it will.
Bladerunner
Active member
The Church became
the
This is a church that is not brick and mortar, it consist the spirits of the people both dead and alive who believed in Jesus from beginning in Acts 2. From this time forward, the Holy Spirit resides within the bodies of the believers.. Before, as in the OT up to Acts 2, the Holy Spirit was simply around the vicinity of the person, with the exceptions of some of the major players back then. This the real separation of the Church (NT)and the assembly in the wilderness in the OT.
Yes, a very different church...back then a physical church today a spiritual church of believers'
the Holy Spirit is the Bodiment of the Church that Jesus Built. He is the restrainer within all believers of this spiritual church. Of course, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one..
It is nice to have a conversation with you. Have a great evening!
Right Divider
Body part
Please speak English.
?
Once AGAIN, the church which is His body (i.e., the body of Christ) was NOWHERE to be found in Acts 2. The apostle Paul was its first member around the Acts 9 time period.
Act 2 was 100% Jewish.
Acts 2:22 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Thanks... but you are not having a conversation. You are having a monologue with yourself.
Lon
Well-known member
RD is telling you, your indoctrination is speaking loudly and ignoring. It tends to be the first thing on TOL. Please read what I said:
It means assembly back then and today. Different assemblies? You are halfway there if you follow.
Lon
Well-known member
Try "Assembly" as one meaning of the word. "Church" is the same, though Jews never adopted the term like we have today. See just above: If we overload the term (and we have) we tend to make the word complicated.
Bladerunner
Active member
The Church that Jesus built has all who believe in His Gospel, both Jew and Gentile.....during this dispensational period of the Church.