pacifism for true Jesus' followers.
- Thread starter meshak
- Start date
Didn't Teddy Rose-a-belt say that? Oh wait, it was Franklin D. Roosevelt. That's right. What he actually said was: "There's nothing to fear, except for the IRS and people who wear silly hats."
What do YOU have to do with any truth?
Do you know something the rest of us don't know? Actually, I don't really think you know, what you know?
Commie!
SonOfCaleb
Active member
Just FYI the annointing at Pentecost was 33CE not 30CE. Im also not entirely sure what your scriptural grounds are for correlating/conflating the two events based on the number killed by the Levi's for worshiping the Golden Calf and those anointed at Pentecost of 3000?
Anyway this seems like a very odd discussion to me. Firstly i agree with you, Jesus nor God are pacifists, certainly not in the human context or understanding of that word. But God is not an arbitary murderer either.
It must be noted that Jesus message was one of love towards God and your neighbour. Thus with 'love' in mind that should prompt any Christian trying to imitate Jesus example to follow the admonition of Isaiah that the UN hypocritically has etched on its building in NY, Isaiah 2:4
"He will render judgment among the nations
And set matters straight respecting many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
And their spears into pruning shears.
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
Nor will they learn war anymore"
There is no instruction or command anywhere in the Christian Greek scriptures that allowed any Christian to commit murder. Gods view of the loss of life is the same regardless of the cirumstance. Even when God wiped out possibly millions prior to the flood saving only the lives of Noah and his family he 'regretted'
(Genesis 6:7 So Jehovah said: I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, man together with domestic animals, creeping animals, and flying creatures of the heavens, for I regret that I have made them.") making that decision in the sense that it pained him that his righteous justice demanded the death of that entire generation who were ALL deemed by God as 'wicked'. Jehovah of course does not tolerate wickedness indefinitely as this goes against his righteousness and holiness.
Recall the wickedness of the generation that lived in Sodom in Genesis 18:20 "Consequently Jehovah said: “The cry of complaint about Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah, yes, it is loud, and their sin, yes, it is very heavy. 21 I am quite determined to go down that I may see whether they act altogether according to the outcry over it that has come to me, and, if not, I can get to know it". 5 times Abraham petitioned God not to destroy the city if he found any righteous persons there. And each time God mercifully listened even though he had no reason whatsoever to even pay attention to Abrahams request as he knew the city and its people were wicked. Abraham of course found no one righteous and the Citys were destroyed.
Thus from these examples its very clear that Jehovah as per his word in Ezekiel 18:23: "‘Do I take any pleasure at all in the death of a wicked person?’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘Do I not prefer that he turn away from his ways and keep living?" takes no pleasure in the loss of ANY life including the wicked. ALL life to him as the sole giver of life is sacred.
But in accordance with his will which requires the destruction of the wicked, as per Jehovahs righteous principles of justice the wicked will be cut off. How God chooses to exact that is immaterial. Using the example you gave Jehovah sent his angel against haughty King Sennacherib who killed 185,000 men in one night. But in your other example Jehovah choose to use the Levites to execute his will. But the important factor here is not how Gods will was accomplished but why and namely who gave the command, God.
As the giver of life ONLY Jehovah has the right to take life or to command/instruct that a life should be taken. Thus when Jesus at the battle of Armageddon comes to execute Gods will he will as Revelation explains be divinely instructed by Jehovah to take the lives of the wicked. Thus Jesus and the anglelic forces on that day will be responsible for the destruction of the wicked again in accordance with Gods will.
Therefore it should be obvious to any Christian attempting to follow Jesus example, especially the example Jesus set in the garden of Gethsemane when Peter drew his sword and cut off the ear of the attendant that was there to take Jesus into custody that taking of life by humans is something 'destable to Jehovah'. Christians nor humans neither have that right nor the instruction/support from God to do so. This will certainly be evidenced at the final war to end all wars -Armageddon- where no Christian and those favoured by God will participate in that warfare.
SonOfCaleb
Active member
There's an incredible amount of irony in this statement that belies a typical historically illiterate anglophile version of history, as historically the corporate elites in America and London fully supported Communism whole heartedly as well as Facism. They contributed millions of dollars to the Communist 'Revolution' and Trotskyites in Russia. War after all was a very lucrative business for the congressional military industrial complex as well as the financiers who supported it which is why Dwight Eisenhower belatedly warned against the Industrial Complex as he exited the White House.
Sadly though the rewriting of history has encouraged this prevailing myth of Americas self 'righteous' fight against communism which in turn has justified among many of the populace the need for the military along with the MIC and its financial backers.
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I would like to remind the readers that Jesus says His followers are not of the world.
The military is politics and of the world.
His followers should not get involved with the military since Jesus made it clear to us to love our enemy.
His followers should not get involved with any kind of bloody affairs.
Too many posters in this thread making Jesus' word so complicated.
I am making it simple to the world as His servant, as His witness as His ambassador.
The military is politics and of the world.
His followers should not get involved with the military since Jesus made it clear to us to love our enemy.
His followers should not get involved with any kind of bloody affairs.
Too many posters in this thread making Jesus' word so complicated.
I am making it simple to the world as His servant, as His witness as His ambassador.
give unto caesar the things that are caesar's
SonOfCaleb
Active member
You forgot the rest of what Jesus said...."And Gods things to God."
did not forget that
-I was just pointing out what so many seem to have forgotten
SonOfCaleb
Active member
..And Jesus last sentence explains why Christians should not take up arms against anyone.
How are ya?
Should we have loved the Nazis instead of destroying them? Thank you for your patriotism, Sir.
The USA is the only country that holds back communist world domination. Putin and the Red Chinese do not take us lightly. A little bit of fear is a good thing.
Our country is continuing to become less and less moral, however, we're still the best country in this sinful world of ours. What's the alternative? Would certain Americans prefer to have the Communists in control of the world?
KingdomRose
New member
It's funny how pacifists believe, literally, that God will destroy this world in a flash of light.
But
The end is coming- I suppose there's nothing you could do anyway
It's true....we cannot fix all the world's problems, but we can do our parts in making life around us better. It won't solve the major problems, but it will help make life more enjoyable, and it gives us a sense of hey, we're helping to make life better while we wait on Jesus. Only God can set matters completely straight, and he will.
Good point!
Would you feel safe knowing that ALL of your rights were suddenly taken away and you and your family were not allowed to bring up what you believe in public? Under communist rule, that would be the case. The USA military holds back that fate.