Sure I do, Hitomi
pacifism for true Jesus' followers.
- Thread starter meshak
- Start date
Lon
Well-known member
Wrong. I 'understand' you just fine. You reject the Bible as the only source of life and godliness and reject the sacrificial death burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. /story.
I hope everyone see that "all".
I don't study any of those people or groups. I study the Bible, in Hebrew, Greek, and English (and Aramaic, where necessary).
You, on the other hand, study the Watchtower, and not the Bible. If you studied the Bible, you wouldn't be a pacifist. You wouldn't be a warmonger either, but you would know what is an appropriate escalation of force for every situation where quote-unquote "violence" is necessary (and it is necessary at times).
But instead, you refuse to answer simple questions about basic principles, about matters of right and wrong. You can't even agree on foundational issues with others of the faith because you're so set in your ways, and because of that, you show yourself to be intellectually dishonest.
kgov.com/cult (the first entry in the search results; working on getting the link to redirect to that entry by default)
In the above link, that's what a cult is.
What you are claiming is that "Meshak has the authority to determine who is saved and who is not, and Meshak is saved along with those that agree with Meshak, and those who disagree are not." That's just now how it works, though.
Because your foundation is flawed, your beliefs are at best weak, but mostly wrong. Because your foundation is flawed, you are unable to know the difference between true right and wrong, and on top of that, you refuse to discuss your beliefs because if you do, they will fall apart very quickly.
Now, I know you have me on ignore, but, iirc, my posts still show up in the thread, though collapsed. So on the off chance you do read this:
| IF you would like to defend your beliefs (all of them, not just your pacifism), I invite you to, and I will start, a one on one thread (nothing official, such as in the coliseum on this site, just in the general forum), and you and I can go through our beliefs from foundation to turrets of our respective castles of beliefs. Should you choose to accept this challenge, let me know, and I will start a new thread and tag you in it, where we can define the rules of the thread (as long as they fall within the guidelines of TOL's rules), and then begin. |
I am willing to change my beliefs if I can be proved incorrect and shown the truth, but will defend my beliefs to the best of my ability. Are you?
Also, this challenge goes to anyone, not just Meshak.
drbrumley
Well-known member
So your saying, even though Jesus Himself spoke those words, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”, it really wasn't Jesus?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Essentials for the journey.......
Essentials for the journey.......
That depends on how you 'translate' and 'interpret' the text, and the symbolic meanings, figuratively speaking. At this point you cannot prove 'God' (your concept of 'God' that is) endorses a 'Trinitarian' Christology over a purely monotheistic Unitarian one, since 'God' looks at the heart of a person anyways, and souls attuned to 'God' recognize the divine Oneness of His Being anyways. The 'Shema' in its metaphysical understanding ever holds,...as Deity is ever a universal unity, a manifold One. All creation unfolds its potentials and possibilities in the One Infinity,...the All That IS.
No Trinitarians have treated the OP, but to say that Jesus in his human nature, was subordinate to God the Father, and so God the Father is the One sending, anointing and appointing the Son in the human person of Jesus, as his human Messiah. This is fine, since all beings and personalities generated out of The Father, are naturally subordinate to Him, their Progenitor, their Father and 'God'. Unitarians hold the same relatioinal concept, although some may not attribute total divinity as 'God' to Jesus, while some hold that Jesus is 'divine' and a 'god' because of his intimate relationship with the Father, as his firstborn, the only begotten 'god', the first being to spring from his bosom.....the logos of God personified. So,...understood in this way, relationally speaking...there is no real difference, since both schools who love Christ, come to and worship the Father thru the Son, since He is the Door. All that is essential is coming thru the DOOR, which leads into the kingdom, into the direct and pure worship of God in spirit.
Since most of the biblical Unitarians here identify YHWH as being the Father, and Jesus being the Son of God, the clear distinction of identity of personality is apparent, no matter how much you want to merge these persons into 'one essence'. There is always a universal unity of Spirit, Life, Energy, Consciousness permeating all space, while distinct personalities are always different RELATING to one another, so the personalities always remain different and distinct from one another. When you look down on this whole Arian Controversy and doctrinal debates over Christology,....all that really matters is are you entering into the kingdom of the heaven while on earth, by uniting to God's Spirit, and being infused in His Presence? Are you entering into the realm of divinity thru the Son?
Are you partaking of that divine nature and inheritance as a son of God? These are the essentials that count, since Abba is looking for those who will worship (appreciate and value) Him in spirit. At the end of the day, as Jesus clearly lays out, "the pure in heart shall see God". Those who call on his name, seek his face, desire his ways, committ to DO his will, are those who will prosper, since God answers the prayer of the faithful, penitent and humble. That attitude of heart and willingness of spirit to draw Godward....is what is essential to be 'saved'. The way to Deity has always been prayer and repentance, the re-TURNING back to SOURCE....the First Source and Center of all Creation.
Essentials for the journey.......
That depends on how you 'translate' and 'interpret' the text, and the symbolic meanings, figuratively speaking. At this point you cannot prove 'God' (your concept of 'God' that is) endorses a 'Trinitarian' Christology over a purely monotheistic Unitarian one, since 'God' looks at the heart of a person anyways, and souls attuned to 'God' recognize the divine Oneness of His Being anyways. The 'Shema' in its metaphysical understanding ever holds,...as Deity is ever a universal unity, a manifold One. All creation unfolds its potentials and possibilities in the One Infinity,...the All That IS.
No Trinitarians have treated the OP, but to say that Jesus in his human nature, was subordinate to God the Father, and so God the Father is the One sending, anointing and appointing the Son in the human person of Jesus, as his human Messiah. This is fine, since all beings and personalities generated out of The Father, are naturally subordinate to Him, their Progenitor, their Father and 'God'. Unitarians hold the same relatioinal concept, although some may not attribute total divinity as 'God' to Jesus, while some hold that Jesus is 'divine' and a 'god' because of his intimate relationship with the Father, as his firstborn, the only begotten 'god', the first being to spring from his bosom.....the logos of God personified. So,...understood in this way, relationally speaking...there is no real difference, since both schools who love Christ, come to and worship the Father thru the Son, since He is the Door. All that is essential is coming thru the DOOR, which leads into the kingdom, into the direct and pure worship of God in spirit.
Since most of the biblical Unitarians here identify YHWH as being the Father, and Jesus being the Son of God, the clear distinction of identity of personality is apparent, no matter how much you want to merge these persons into 'one essence'. There is always a universal unity of Spirit, Life, Energy, Consciousness permeating all space, while distinct personalities are always different RELATING to one another, so the personalities always remain different and distinct from one another. When you look down on this whole Arian Controversy and doctrinal debates over Christology,....all that really matters is are you entering into the kingdom of the heaven while on earth, by uniting to God's Spirit, and being infused in His Presence? Are you entering into the realm of divinity thru the Son?
Are you partaking of that divine nature and inheritance as a son of God? These are the essentials that count, since Abba is looking for those who will worship (appreciate and value) Him in spirit. At the end of the day, as Jesus clearly lays out, "the pure in heart shall see God". Those who call on his name, seek his face, desire his ways, committ to DO his will, are those who will prosper, since God answers the prayer of the faithful, penitent and humble. That attitude of heart and willingness of spirit to draw Godward....is what is essential to be 'saved'. The way to Deity has always been prayer and repentance, the re-TURNING back to SOURCE....the First Source and Center of all Creation.
Lon
Well-known member
No, but I'm glad you say it. The only alternative to a Total Need for the Lord Jesus Christ, is your position and it leads to a Christ-less Christianity
It doesn't matter that ten guys on the internet happen to make up some portion of this site. Perhaps we have 100 people who read here at any length. The numbers are still 600 to one and about a million to one where you are concerned. I'm not brainless and happen to side with the 600 and 1 million.
It is all bootstrap talk. John 15:5 Colossians 1:17 Acts 17:28 Read them. Your opinion isn't important. Mine neither. What matters IS what is real and true, not "what we want to be true." You live in fantasy more than reality and make-it-up as you go. There is no life in make-believe. Life is only found in Him. Honestly, you have no place else to go, other than lost, if you throw away "what God gives to man" (rather than what man wants/demands of God). Christianity is very clear and very distinct. -Lon
Dead men can not raise themselves from the dead--
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
LA
You can have an opinion same as anyone else.
No, but I'm glad you say it. The only alternative to a Total Need for the Lord Jesus Christ, is your position and it leads to a Christ-less Christianity
It doesn't matter that ten guys on the internet happen to make up some portion of this site. Perhaps we have 100 people who read here at any length. The numbers are still 600 to one and about a million to one where you are concerned. I'm not brainless and happen to side with the 600 and 1 million.
It is all bootstrap talk. John 15:5 Colossians 1:17 Acts 17:28 Read them. Your opinion isn't important. Mine neither. What matters IS what is real and true, not "what we want to be true." You live in fantasy more than reality and make-it-up as you go. There is no life in make-believe. Life is only found in Him. Honestly, you have no place else to go, other than lost, if you throw away "what God gives to man" (rather than what man wants/demands of God). Christianity is very clear and very distinct. -Lon
Just more worthless opinion.
LA
marhig
Well-known member
I believe Jesus and that's what he teaches. So I believe that it's the truth
God forgave us of the sins that we did in ignorance. Once we know the truth then we are to turn from sin and so the will of God. If we carry on wilfully sinning, then I believe that we will suffer for that and God won't be mocked. He won't be with those who live by the will of the devil. We are to deny ourselves turn from sin and live by the will of God. Paul says that we are judged on what we do whether or be good or bad.
Great verses, I hope people take notice and obey God.
marhig
Well-known member
Yes "all" trespasses that we did in ignorance before we heard the truth. Once we believe and repent, then we are to turn from sin. And live by God's will.
Wilful sinning isn't the way of God, Jesus lived by God's will and didn't sin, and those born of God who truly follow him, worshipping God in Spirit and in truth, turn from sin and also live by God's will. Others can't see the life of Christ through us, if we put our flesh before God.
2 Corinthians 5
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
the military is of the world. It is amazing that most churches cannot see this simple fact.
If we engage in the war just because we are not getting our ways or believe our enemy is evil, we are no different from the world. The military is world's standard, not His followers'.
Jesus' followers have responsibility to be godly witness to the whole world, not just for our own people: this fact has been disregarded and it is a grave sin.
marhig
Well-known member
I agree. Hatred and war is not of God, love as peace is. God is love!
God's word says:
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. - Romans 13:1-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans13:1-7&version=NKJV
marhig
Well-known member
Exactly, he's a MINISTER of God, and Gods ministers don't use weapons or natural swords for warfare, our war is in the pulling down of the worldly strongholds of Satan. And the sword that Gods true ministers use is the sword of the Spirit, who delivers truth by the word of God.
2 Corinthians 10
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled
2 Corinthians 10
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled
Incorrect.
The government does not use the sword in vain. The word for sword used means, literally, a knife, such as a dirk (a long dagger), or figuratively, war or judicial punishment.
For individuals in the Body of Christ, yes. For governments, no.
Incorrect. See above.
2 Corinthians 10
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:*(For the weapons of our warfare*are*not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Paul is talking to and about believers in the Body of Christ, individuals. He is not, I repeat, NOT talking about governments or authorities.
Paul does not contradict himself when He says that Governments (or "authorities") use swords (i.e. war or judicial punishment) by the authority of God, and that individuals in thte Body of Christ, who do not have the same authority, should focus on spiritual warfare, but he does not say we should not join the military.
For those who do join the military, they are given the authority by the government (who was given authority by God) to do what the government commands them to do, go where the government commands them to go, fight where commanded, assist where commanded.