There is also a dative issue (direct address).
ECT Our triune God
- Thread starter Lon
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There is also a dative issue (direct address).
2Jn 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
Wile E. Coyote
New member
No denial of Christ's divinity is present in the statement.
Lon
Well-known member
No, I am not double thinking the text. To me, that's the 'first' thing I thought it said. Digging has only confirmed such. You are the one in 200, remember? ▼
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Now who is doing a fancy dance here, Mr 1 in 200? :think:
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▲Forest/trees much?
That's 3 that have had a couple of Greek classes. I wonder what the other 197 would have on their answer sheets? :think:
Er, one in two hundred, remember? "#196 calling #196,"
When the Teacher gets back, you are so 'in trouble.'
Lon
Well-known member
It is so very clear :up:
There is no affirmation either. There is no proof that Thomas interjection was not one address either, of which is a nominative without verb and without accussative. It addressed two objects and not one.
This is not grammatically, contextually true based on similar phrases about YHWH in the LXX. The only reason you argue this way is to deny the truth of the statement, a strong affirmation of the Deity of Christ.
You're projecting again. :noway:
SD: “ Could he [Jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link
Jesus is incorruptible (Rom 1:23), immutable (Ps 102:26–27, James 1:17), and perfect (Matt 5:48 , Ps 99:9, Is 5:16). You do not know him. The god you worship is not the God of scripture. You are an idolater (1 Co 6:9).
See:
Godrulz
Jesus is God Almighty, part of the triune Godhead. He is one person with two natures, fully God, fully man. He was virgin conceived, sinless, rose from the dead, etc.
This is the same God/Jesus you and all other true Christians affirm.
A false god/christ would be like Islam's version (deny His Deity, death, resurrection), Mormonism (one god among many gods, evolving man), JW (Michael Archangel, created being).
You lack integrity, credibility, brains. You should not be on a theology site.:doh:
Lon
Well-known member
A good post from Redeemed 777
A good post from Redeemed 777
Good summation of your study :up: Thanks.
A good post from Redeemed 777
Good summation of your study :up: Thanks.
There is no statement, just an interjection. You can't prove otherwise, so you are only insist it is so. "My apartment, and My dog..." Notice how and separates the two objects just like KAI does.
The vocative and dative show that it is a direct address to Jesus. Thomas said TO HIM (not to THEM): the Lord of me, the God of me.
When the same phrase is used in the LXX about YHWH, you do not use the same lame logic.
Even JW NWT does not try to twist this verse like they do the other Deity of Christ verses. They simply use stupid arguments like you to retain Arian ideas. They say things like Thomas was surprised and said basically 'oh my God'. Seriously?!
I said to you, my friend and my co-worker. Again, direct address with two descriptions of the same person. If I wanted to separate them, I would say something like, I say to you two, my friend (one person), my co-worker (another person). Context ultimately determines the issue.
Jesus simply received this as worship (other places combine Lord and God about YHWH).
You are rationalizing away truth, not exegeting.
The grammar, theology, context stands against your view.
He has to be fully human, and not the God for him to be a relevant example. η o̔δὸς καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια καὶ ἡ ζωή "a way, a truth, and a life." Anything else is less and is idolatry. You can't justify apparent arrogance by claiming he was half-God, because he was fully human and would be doing wrong.
But let us look at 1 Corinthians 5:21
τὸν γὰρ μὴ γνόντα ἁμαρτίαν ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἁμαρτίαν ἐποίησεν, ἵνα ἡμεῖς γενώμεθα δικαιοσύνη Θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ.
"Because one not feeling the wrongdeed for us, the wrongdeed, he made him, that we ourselves might be the good of God, in him."
A way, A truth, and A life -- indeed.
Lon
Well-known member
"Thomas said to Jesus..."
keypurr
Well-known member
Mar 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Still think Jesus is God Almighty?
It is neither of the sort according to the "basics".
Where?
I am not twisting, and I can't usually help that JWs are usually stupid.
No greek letters drive the issue here. In such a case, an address would beging with carefully and more logically one accusative not two nominative objects.
There is nothing authentic about idols and idolatry.
Only in your weak imagination.
Yes, Son of God implies equality with the Father because they share the same eternal nature. The Pharisees understood His claim and wanted to stone Him. Jesus did not correct them, but stood His ground. If you were Jewish like Jesus, you would get it (Jn. 5:18; Jn. 10:30-33 John helps us Gentile readers understand what Jesus is claiming....He is the unique Son of God by eternal nature, while we are adopted and not Deity, not God by nature).