ECT Our triune God

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Look at the counterpart "Lord" rather than "Son" here. It is a tell-tale sign of something important. If it meant what you think, it would be "Father" then "Son." It isn't. It is a distinction between the two.

Also back up to verse 5.

[FONT=&quot]In verse 6 Paul could just have stopped with the mention of the Father. Nevertheless he continues, "And one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and we through him."
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Paul does this mainly for one reason, that is, because Paul has above in verse 5 said "lords many." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]While the title Κ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ύ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ριος[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (Kurious - Lord) is bestowed upon the Godhead as such and upon the Father as the first person, it is also and eminently, as here, bestowed upon the Son.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Already this shows that the Son is true God, unabridged and not subordinate to the Father. His personal and his official name is "Jesus Christ," a name precious to all Christians, but used also to designate him as the incarnate Son and our Redeemer.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christ's deity is plainly marked by the significant phrase "through whom are all things," the same τ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ὰ[/FONT][FONT=&quot] π[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ά[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ντα[/FONT][FONT=&quot] as appearing in the first part of the verse. Christ's pre-existence is indicated in the phrase "through whom are all things," and the prepositions [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ἐ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]κ[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and δι[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ά[/FONT][FONT=&quot] mark the respective activities of the Father and of the Son in the work of creation.[/FONT]

LA, you will need a better verse, not that you will find one, than this one to argue your heresy here. :AMR:

AMR

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Look at the counterpart "Lord" rather than "Son" here. It is a tell-tale sign of something important. If it meant what you think, it would be "Father" then "Son." It isn't. It is a distinction between the two.

That is two individual beings, not two heads of a one being God.


2Jn 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Also back up to verse 5.

[FONT=&quot]In verse 6 Paul could just have stopped with the mention of the Father. Nevertheless he continues, "And one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and we through him."
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Paul does this mainly for one reason, that is, because Paul has above in verse 5 said "lords many." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]While the title Κ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ύ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ριος[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (Kurious - Lord) is bestowed upon the Godhead as such and upon the Father as the first person, it is also and eminently, as here, bestowed upon the Son.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Already this shows that the Son is true God, unabridged and not subordinate to the Father. His personal and his official name is "Jesus Christ," a name precious to all Christians, but used also to designate him as the incarnate Son and our Redeemer.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christ's deity is plainly marked by the significant phrase "through whom are all things," the same τ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ὰ[/FONT][FONT=&quot] π[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ά[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ντα[/FONT][FONT=&quot] as appearing in the first part of the verse. Christ's pre-existence is indicated in the phrase "through whom are all things," and the prepositions [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ἐ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]κ[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and δι[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ά[/FONT][FONT=&quot] mark the respective activities of the Father and of the Son in the work of creation.[/FONT]

LA, you will need a better verse, not that you will find one, than this one to argue your heresy here. :AMR:

AMR

I am not argueing what I believe, you are defending your beliefs against the plain reading of scripture.

You use terms like incarnate son and the like which the Bible never uses because it does not need it.

You need it to try and prove your heresies.

Jesus is a man who is Gods son through Mary raised up by God His Father to be King over the new creation.

You deny this simple truth by your religion from the RCC and other trinitarians .

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


LA

 

[Lon]

That is two individual beings, not two heads of a one being God.


2Jn 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

LA

No problem. I agree. Now read John 1:1 or Isaiah 9:6, or Colossians 1 where there is equation. Believe both because scripture says both.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No problem. I agree. Now read John 1:1 or Isaiah 9:6, or Colossians 1 where there is equation. Believe both because scripture says both.

You still deny that God raised up a man, His son through Mary, and bestowed upon Him the Fathers own name, and office of King over the Fathers own creation.

The scriptures say this plainly but you deny the real Jesus described in them.

LA

 

[Lon]

You still deny that God raised up a man, His son through Mary, and bestowed upon Him the Fathers own name, and office of King over the Fathers own creation.

The scriptures say this plainly but you deny the real Jesus described in them.

LA

I or more correctly "we," don't deny any scripture. Rather what we deny is 'your' interpretation.
There is absolutely no doubt, whatsoever in my mind that the Word was 'with' God and 'was' God; both. The scripture says it plainly that it is both God and with Him at the same time. No happy creative dance can eliminate how clear that is given. Without doubt, it must be both. Until 'your' answer reflects that truth, how could 'we' ever be bothered to listen? It is right there in scripture and we all agree with one another and believe it.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

I or more correctly "we," don't deny any scripture. Rather what we deny is 'your' interpretation.
There is absolutely no doubt, whatsoever in my mind that the Word was 'with' God and 'was' God; both. The scripture says it plainly that it is both God and with Him at the same time. No happy creative dance can eliminate how clear that is given. Without doubt, it must be both. Until 'your' answer reflects that truth, how could 'we' ever be bothered to listen? It is right there in scripture and we all agree with one another and believe it.

Amen brother! LA's theology is built upon half truths. Scripture says that the Father raised up Jesus. It says also that He raised up Himself. John 2:19-21

Scripture says that the Father will put all things under His feet. It says also that He will subject all things under Himself. Philippians 3:21

I have told LA many times that he speaks half truths and that half truths are FULL lis and he just won't listen.

Trinitarians deny no scripture.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Amen brother! LA's theology is built upon half truths. Scripture says that the Father raised up Jesus. It says also that He raised up Himself. John 2:19-21

No. You speak a full lie.

Jesus is Gods son, not God.

The Father spoke through Jesus but you would not know anything about His anointing.--


Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.



Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Scripture says that the Father will put all things under His feet. It says also that He will subject all things under Himself. Philippians 3:21

No. You speak a full lie.

The Father is placing all things under the feet of His son.

Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.


1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

I have told LA many times that he speaks half truths and that half truths are FULL lis and he just won't listen.

Trinitarians deny no scripture.

You just denied those scriptures.

God only puts up with your lying because He is patient with you and wants you come to salvation through repentence and acknowlegement of the truth.

LA

 

[Lon]

God only puts up with your lying because He is patient with you and wants you come to salvation through repentence and acknowlegement of the truth.

LA

That's true of all of us. I don't think you lying, I simply believe you wrong and believing another's lie. That's the difference between you and I.

I wish that you'd find the truth every other believer holds as true. There are very few of you and you even fight and scratch for the top rung amongst yourselves.

You'll find no triune believer doing this on this particular topic. None at all. We all believe it the same.

That should have been a warning sign to you a long long time ago. When I used to get a wrong answer in math class, I used to go "uh oh" every time. You apparently are missing that necessary piece of logic.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

That's true of all of us. I don't think you lying, I simply believe you wrong and believing another's lie. That's the difference between you and I.

I wish that you'd find the truth every other believer holds as true. There are very few of you and you even fight and scratch for the top rung amongst yourselves.

You'll find no triune believer doing this on this particular topic. None at all. We all believe it the same.

That should have been a warning sign to you a long long time ago. When I used to get a wrong answer in math class, I used to go "uh oh" every time. You apparently are missing that necessary piece of logic.

Lon,

Jesus is the word made flesh.

The word which was God and with God is Gods word.

Jesus is Gods word made flesh.

Simple.

LA

 

[Lon]

Lon,

Jesus is the word made flesh.

The word which was God and with God is Gods word.

Jesus is Gods word made flesh.

Simple.

LA

Logic problem:

Was with God and was God. <-- See right there? You are half-right to say "God's Word." You are neglecting the 2nd part: "Was God."
It seriously looks like you are correcting God here, to me and saying to this verse "No, no no." That's how I see it.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Logic problem:

Was with God and was God. <-- See right there? You are half-right to say "God's Word." You are neglecting the 2nd part: "Was God."
It seriously looks like you are correcting God here, to me and saying to this verse "No, no no." That's how I see it.

"was God" refers to the word which was with God.

The word became flesh.

No flesh, no Jesus.

The Word does not change into flesh. The flesh is conformed to the Word by the Spirit.

Jesus spoke the Word, but He was also first bought up by the word to be conformed to it Himself.

The word was God because Gods word is always God.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


I retire now.

LA

 

[Gill White]

The word was God because Gods word is always God.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


I retire now.

LA

:thumb:



''the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life''

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[Lon]

"was God" refers to the word which was with God.

The word became flesh.

No flesh, no Jesus.

Think for a second: Do I need 'flesh' to exist?

The Word does not change into flesh. The flesh is conformed to the Word by the Spirit.

Jesus spoke the Word, but He was also first bought up by the word to be conformed to it Himself.

The word was God because Gods word is always God.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


I retire now.

LA

:thumb:.
.

Same logical problem: Was with and Was, God. You are trying to say "Was with God or was God."

 

[Lon]

Totton on John 20:28

Totton on John 20:28

If Christ reveals Himself to ANYbody as He did to Thomas they will do as Thomas did and worship Him as their "Lord God"

All [any unit-arian] is doing is testifying that he has not had a correct revelation of Him.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No.

I have a correct revelation of Christ after His resurrection, but the trinitarian misrepresents who He was from His beginning, for the RCC doctrine makes Jesus to be a god who came down from Heaven to be a baby in Mary.

God is not one being with three heads as the trinitarian believes.

God is a spirit and is one person.

Jesus is a man fathered by God in Mary, raised up to be the perfect man by Gods word , who spoke Gods word by the Spirit, who still speaks the same today by which men become saved.

Jesus is one person , but is a man.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the one person creator God in which Gods son Jesus dwells and He in Him.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Heaven.

LA

 

[Lon]

No.

Was with but was 'not' God, then. But it is still adding to His words rather than believing "was with and was God."

I have a correct revelation of Christ after His resurrection, but the trinitarian misrepresents who He was from His beginning, for the RCC doctrine makes Jesus to be a god who came down from Heaven to be a baby in Mary.

Jumping to gossip and false accusation? Why? What is the reason?

God is not one being with three heads as the trinitarian believes.

This is also a gossiping caricature I've heard before. Are we at that point where this is all that is left? Arian name-calling soundbytes that make you feel better?

God is a spirit and is one person.

God is spirit. Can you show me the one person verse, please?

Jesus is a man fathered by God in Mary,

Being the son of a god makes one a...?

...raised up to be the perfect man by Gods word , who spoke Gods word by the Spirit, who still speaks the same today by which men become saved.

Half-man, Half-god? All man all God?
Then, if scripture says there is only one and ever will be only one, how does that jive? This trinitarian is endeavoring to answer that question, not sweeping it under the rug, even if I conclude it a "mystery" I can't quite figure out.

Jesus is one person , but is a man.

Not seeing a problem here.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the one person creator God in which Gods son Jesus dwells and He in Him.

Doesn't that make Him...?

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Heaven.

LA

God?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

 

[Lon]

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Same thing with Dolly. You can have Dolly 1 in one room and Dolly 2 in another room yet they are both Dolly. It is all very logical.

(no need to shout, I can read)

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Same thing with Dolly. You can have Dolly 1 in one room and Dolly 2 in another room yet they are both Dolly. It is all very logical.

(no need to shout, I can read)

Then read this--

http://focusonthekingdom.org/1412.pdf


LA