ECT Our triune God

[OneGodInChrist]

Peace

I was wrong when I believed it too. God was IN Jesus. He came as a man to be the sacrifice for men. He had to die, God cannot die. If he was not just a man, he died for nothing. The Christ was foretold to be a man, a prophet, a teacher not a god. Christ, the anointed one of God, came in the flesh.
Peace

Isaiah 9:6 KJV "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

I believe Jesus was God come in flesh as a man. However, I DON'T believe that He was the second person in a Trinity, but simply that God of the Old Testament (the Father) became flesh in the New Testament as the Son.

 

[godrulz]

keypurr=Arian

OneChrist=Sabellian

godrulz=biblical, historical, orthodox trinitarian:wave:

 

[OneGodInChrist]

keypurr=Arian

OneChrist=Sabellian

godrulz=biblical, historical, orthodox trinitarian:wave:

Correction:

OneChrist=Apostolic
Preaches the same as Peter did in Acts 2:38, Acts 8, Acts 10:48
What Paul taught in Col. 2:9-11, Eph. 4:5, Acts 19:5

You can have your orthodoxy..I'm shooting to be Apostolic (believe what the apostles believed).

And as far as historical, you're right as long as you don't go back further than 200AD. Once you go back to the first two centuries, I have you with history too.

Still appreciate you though godrulz, and glad there's a fellow Pentecostal to debate with

 

[keypurr]

Isaiah 9:6 KJV "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

I believe Jesus was God come in flesh as a man. However, I DON'T believe that He was the second person in a Trinity, but simply that God of the Old Testament (the Father) became flesh in the New Testament as the Son.

What did Jesus say? (John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. Jesus heard from who?


Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him
Who gave him?

Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Jesus was commanded what to say but by whom? His God and Father! Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

So who is Jesus? I could not say it better than Acts 2:22...

"Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

"Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has caused us to be born-again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3).

"To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen" (Jude 25).

Judge for yourself.

 

[OneGodInChrist]

What did Jesus say? (John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. Jesus heard from who?


Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him
Who gave him?

Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Jesus was commanded what to say but by whom? His God and Father! Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

So who is Jesus? I could not say it better than Acts 2:22...

"Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

"Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has caused us to be born-again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3).

"To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen" (Jude 25).

Judge for yourself.

I totally agree with all those Scriptures you have given. However, I dont believe we can take certain Scriptures and use them to throw out or ignore others :i.e. Isa.9:6, 1Tim. 3:16, etc' etc...

I believe that Jesus Christ was the God of the Old Testamrnt (Father) manifest in flesh in the New 1Tim. 3:16.

However, when He became flesh, He didnt cease being the God of the universe (the Father). We have to be careful not to put human restrictions on God, such as wondering how He could be two places at once. God is omnipresent - everywhere present and nowhere absent, and He's omnipotent - all powerful. He's also sovereign.

He was the gift Math. 1:21
But yet He was the giver Jihn 3:17

Jesus however, was also fully man, so He had His own human mind, will, etc. If He didn,t, He wouldn't REALLY be a man.

When God appeared to Abraham in the burning bush, He was still God in heaven. Also whn He appeared to Jacob as a wrestling angel and the fourth man in the fiery furnace to three Hebrew children.

Just the same, He was the Son, and also didn't cease being the God of the Old Testament while becoming the Son in the New.
God bless

 

[Gill White]

keypurr=Arian

OneChrist=Sabellian

godrulz=biblical, historical, orthodox trinitarian:wave:

Such humbleness :rotfl:

When the trumpet sounds:

Trinitarian's on this side, Arian's on that side, Sabellian's over there, Baptist sit over in the corner, Methodist sit right there in front. :rotfl:

Oh how far we been divided:

 

[godrulz]

Such humbleness :rotfl:

When the trumpet sounds:

Trinitarian's on this side, Arian's on that side, Sabellian's over there, Baptist sit over in the corner, Methodist sit right there in front. :rotfl:

Oh how far we been divided:

Baptist, Methodist, trinitarian are in the same Christian boat. Sabellians can join us because they are right about the Deity of Christ and trust Jesus as YHWH.

Arians are a condemned pseudo-Christian heresy. Polytheists, Muslims, cults, Hindus, New Agers, etc. deny the person and work of Christ, so are excluded by Christ from life eternal with Him.

Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16; Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; Rom. 1:16; Rom. 10:9-10; I Cor. 15:1-4; I Jn. 5:11-13.

Jesus is God and He rose from the dead, unlike other religions/founders. This is why He/we make exclusive claims. Blurring the distinction between truth and error is deception, not reality (Gal. 1:6-9; 2 Cor. 11:4; Jude 3).

Do you want to be in the life boat or continue in relativism?

 

[keypurr]

I totally agree with all those Scriptures you have given. However, I dont believe we can take certain Scriptures and use them to throw out or ignore others :i.e. Isa.9:6, 1Tim. 3:16, etc' etc...

I believe that Jesus Christ was the God of the Old Testamrnt (Father) manifest in flesh in the New 1Tim. 3:16.

However, when He became flesh, He didnt cease being the God of the universe (the Father). We have to be careful not to put human restrictions on God, such as wondering how He could be two places at once. God is omnipresent - everywhere present and nowhere absent, and He's omnipotent - all powerful. He's also sovereign.

He was the gift Math. 1:21
But yet He was the giver Jihn 3:17

Jesus however, was also fully man, so He had His own human mind, will, etc. If He didn,t, He wouldn't REALLY be a man.

When God appeared to Abraham in the burning bush, He was still God in heaven. Also whn He appeared to Jacob as a wrestling angel and the fourth man in the fiery furnace to three Hebrew children.

Just the same, He was the Son, and also didn't cease being the God of the Old Testament while becoming the Son in the New.
God bless

We are in agreement on more than one verse of scripture friend. However if Jesus was god, WHO did he pray to? Jesus say that his Father is the ONLY GOD. Paul says we have one God, the father AND one Lord Jesus Christ. If Jesus was born god why did he have to grow in wisdom? How could he die? These are questions you must answer for yourself. It tookme many years to discover who he really is. God worked THROUGH Jesus, like he did when the world was created. I believe that Jesus was a god like creation that pre-exsisted. But even though he was created in the FORM of God, he was/is not God himself.
That should give you a lot to ponder over my friend.
Peace

 

[OneGodInChrist]

We are in agreement on more than one verse of scripture friend. However if Jesus was god, WHO did he pray to? Jesus say that his Father is the ONLY GOD. Paul says we have one God, the father AND one Lord Jesus Christ. If Jesus was born god why did he have to grow in wisdom? How could he die? These are questions you must answer for yourself. It tookme many years to discover who he really is. God worked THROUGH Jesus, like he did when the world was created. I believe that Jesus was a god like creation that pre-exsisted. But even though he was created in the FORM of God, he was/is not God himself.
That should give you a lot to ponder over my friend.
Peace

Well its nice that we can relate to one another because I used to see it exactly like you do, and I did have to ponder all those questions very carefully. They were answered when I realized that Jesus Christ wasn't only God, but that He was FULLY man. He took on the form of a servant. If He didn't have to pray, He wouldn't have really been a man. It was the man that He became praying to the eternal, omnipresent Spirit (the Father).

John 14:14 teaches us that Jesus also answers prayer.
Rev. 1:8 calls Him the Almighty.
Some verse speak of God AND the Father. Eph. 5:20 Col. 1:3 Col. 3:7 1Thes. 1:1
I think we would both agree however that God and the Father are both one.

 

[OneGodInChrist]

Baptist, Methodist, trinitarian are in the same Christian boat. Sabellians can join us because they are right about the Deity of Christ and trust Jesus as YHWH.

I appreciate the confirmation godrulz, but I don't consider myself a Sabellian, although Sabellian did also believe the same as I do. I don't choose to call you a Tertullian...You're a Trinitarian Pentecostal and I'm a Oneness Pentecostal.
Lets not label one another bro!!

 

[Pierac]

The Pharisees rejected His Messiahship and Deity. They were wrong to do so, but they did not misunderstand His claims to both.

Jn. 14:28 relates to the incarnation (position vs nature), while Jn. 5:18; Jn. 10:30-33; Jn. 19:7 are e.g. of them understanding His claim to equality with God and trying to kill Him for blasphemy. Claiming to be Messiah is not grounds for blasphemy.

Why do you keep posting John out of context? :think:

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Godrulz, John wants you to believe Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God. Nothing more, nothing less!

So let's make this simple... What does John want you to believe based upon his writings here in John 20:31 ? :think:

1.) Jesus is an angel

2.) Jesus is GOD

3.) Jesus is God's Christ and Son

If you answer anything other than number 3... you need to go back and read the statement of John! As you are going beyond the reason he wrote his Gospel!


It appears Jesus did in fact speak in the context of John... claiming to be the Son of God!

Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.


You could at least do the same and stay in CONTEXT! :think:

oly::sherlock:
Paul

 

[keypurr]

Well its nice that we can relate to one another because I used to see it exactly like you do, and I did have to ponder all those questions very carefully. They were answered when I realized that Jesus Christ wasn't only God, but that He was FULLY man. He took on the form of a servant. If He didn't have to pray, He wouldn't have really been a man. It was the man that He became praying to the eternal, omnipresent Spirit (the Father).

John 14:14 teaches us that Jesus also answers prayer.
Rev. 1:8 calls Him the Almighty.
Some verse speak of God AND the Father. Eph. 5:20 Col. 1:3 Col. 3:7 1Thes. 1:1
I think we would both agree however that God and the Father are both one.

I believe that Rev 1:8 is NOT Jesus talking, but God.
Notice the next few verses. I heard a voice BEHIND ME...
Then Jesus come into the verse. The father is the Almighty, Jesus tells you that is father is greater than ALL.

Jesus cannot be the Almighty and have a God over him friend. Paul, Peter and all the others always refer to God the father of Jesus AND Jesus our Lord. One is God, one is Lord. I think Jesus is a highly created spiritual being. God like. Give powers no other has. Its a long story and just my theory, but thats what I see.

 

[Apple7]

Wow, it's amazing how many Christians can take a Book of scripture expressively written in signs and symbols and create a wholly different text when trying to explain it! :think:


Paul

You speak as a child who already has been exposed for not being able to discern the difference between even two Greek words.

 

[Apple7]

I like being called "Pops", maybe I should change my name. But my question has yet to be answered. I ask that you study the subject of Image of God with me. We have different ideas, but the same love for God so just maybe we can work together on it. I was hoping that the older I got the easier the questions would be, but it does not work that way.

Yes...I like it too!

 

[Apple7]

Although I don't believe in the doctrine of the trinity, I do believe that the Scriptures emphatically teach that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh. John 1:1, 14; 1 Tim. 3:16, Rev. 1:8; etc, etc...

How is it that you can believe that Jesus is God in the flesh and yet deny the Trinity?

 

[OneGodInChrist]

I believe that Rev 1:8 is NOT Jesus talking, but God.
Notice the next few verses. I heard a voice BEHIND ME...
Then Jesus come into the verse. The father is the Almighty, Jesus tells you that is father is greater than ALL.

Jesus cannot be the Almighty and have a God over him friend. Paul, Peter and all the others always refer to God the father of Jesus AND Jesus our Lord. One is God, one is Lord. I think Jesus is a highly created spiritual being. God like. Give powers no other has. Its a long story and just my theory, but thats what I see.

I totally know where you're coming from because as I said, I used to see it EXACTLY like you do for a long time. But then I just began to see too many Scriptures that spoke of Christ's Deity.

The reason I believe that Rev. 1:8 is talking about Christ is that in that verse, as well as again in three other verses He says "I am Alpha and Omega" Rev. 1:11 Rev. 21:6 Rev. 22:13
The One who is Alpha and Omega in Rev.1:8 is also called the Almighty in that verse.

Also the Bible teaches that God is Lord Rev. 21:22 Rev. 22:5 Rev. 22:6 etc
It also teaches that Jesus is Lord Acts 11:17 Acts 15:11 Rom. 1:7 Etc.
But yet Eph. 4:3-5 says that there is one Spirit, and also ONE LORD.

I believe that one Lord is God who manifest Himself in the flesh as the Son of God. Not a seperate "person" but simply a different manifestation of God 1Tim. 3:16
Col. 2:9 says that in Christ dwells ALL THE FULNESS of the Godhead bodily. All of God was not in Christ as far as volume of course, but all of WHO and WHAT God is was in Christ.
God Bless

 

[Pierac]

You speak as a child who already has been exposed for not being able to discern the difference between even two Greek words.

Speaking from one who quotes the Literal words of Revelation!

I'm not suprised you cant unnderstand or even believe the very first Chapter and verse of the book you so quote as your own!

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

Your so stupid in both Hebrew and Greek! You can even understand.... God's Christ (Jesus) was given a Revelation from God... :chuckle: to you!

Your theological spanking is complete sissy boy! Stop crying and go home!

Paul

 

[Apple7]

Speaking from one who quotes the Literal words of Revelation!

I'm not suprised you cant unnderstand or even believe the very first Chapter and verse of the book you so quote as your own!

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

Your so stupid in both Hebrew and Greek! You can even understand.... God's Christ (Jesus) was given a Revelation from God... :chuckle: to you!

Your theological spanking is complete sissy boy! Stop crying and go home!

Paul

Theos refers to the Trinity in this verse, as demonstrated by the subsequent greeting from Father, Son and Spirit.

Uni’s don’t study scripture….you and Gill already proved to us that you don’t even know how to use a simple Greek concordance!:rotfl:

We simply expected more intellect from someone who boasts to have paid $20K in taxes last year.

 

[keypurr]

I totally know where you're coming from because as I said, I used to see it EXACTLY like you do for a long time. But then I just began to see too many Scriptures that spoke of Christ's Deity.

The reason I believe that Rev. 1:8 is talking about Christ is that in that verse, as well as again in three other verses He says "I am Alpha and Omega" Rev. 1:11 Rev. 21:6 Rev. 22:13
The One who is Alpha and Omega in Rev.1:8 is also called the Almighty in that verse.

Also the Bible teaches that God is Lord Rev. 21:22 Rev. 22:5 Rev. 22:6 etc
It also teaches that Jesus is Lord Acts 11:17 Acts 15:11 Rom. 1:7 Etc.
But yet Eph. 4:3-5 says that there is one Spirit, and also ONE LORD.

I believe that one Lord is God who manifest Himself in the flesh as the Son of God. Not a seperate "person" but simply a different manifestation of God 1Tim. 3:16
Col. 2:9 says that in Christ dwells ALL THE FULNESS of the Godhead bodily. All of God was not in Christ as far as volume of course, but all of WHO and WHAT God is was in Christ.
God Bless

If you can not see that Jesus has a God then there is nothing I can say to get you to understand who Jesus really is. The world was made THROUGH Jesus by his father. He is a very high spiritual being. But I do not believe he is God friend. Paul says we have one God AND one Lord Jesus. God and Lord are not the same. One is the creator the other is created.

 

[Redeemed-777]

If you can not see that Jesus has a God then there is nothing I can say to get you to understand who Jesus really is. The world was made THROUGH Jesus by his father. He is a very high spiritual being. But I do not believe he is God friend. Paul says we have one God AND one Lord Jesus. God and Lord are not the same. One is the creator the other is created.

I just finished writing a little article on spiritual blindness,
which is mentioned all through the OT and NT.

Re: your particular spiritual blindness ...

Father God created "all things" through the Word (Logos),
who became flesh in the form of a man called "Jesus" (John 1:14),
just means that Father God ordained it, planned it, etc.,
but the Word (Logos) actually did the creating.
Very high spiritual beings don't go around creating "all things".
Lucifer (Satan) was the grandest of all created beings,
but he can't create anything except hatred, chaos, spiritual blindness, etc.
Want to see the verse for that?

In the Bible, God and Lord do mean the same thing.
God in Hebrews 1:8 calls Jesus "God".
God in Hebrews 1:10 calls Jesus "Lord".
This is what we call killing two birds with one stone.

If you will not believe what the Bible clearly says,
I advise you to dump yours in the dumpster ... and walk.

BTW, Jerzy was raisin' hell elsewhere, but got dumped.
What I don't know is ... if he's in a dumpster somewhere.