ECT Our triune God

[Lon]

Spoiler

True, we cannot. However, Jesus said to His Disciples: You didn't choose Me, I chose you". For our understanding we have to equate the new birth with discipleship. Let go on to hear Jesus say this: "For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?" Luke 14:28 (KJV)

Question: Why did Jesus choose those He did? Foreknowledge is a good answer but what did He see beforehand that He knew He could count on?

If you believe you are sealed unto salvation, which I believe you do believe that, what is the point in giving my life to Jesus, by words of commitment, emotionally brought on by some unlearned learned preacher, during his alter call, especially when I love own more? 'Come to Jesus and He will change/give you new life', he shouts! So this soul is persuaded to the alter believing for some glorious experience that will automatically transform him to be like Jesus. Need I continue? You know the routine.

So the question to you now is, was he saved in his obedience to the preacher? You are forced to say, yes because you don't. We are not judges in these matters. However, was he born again? Why of course you say. One cannot be saved without being born again, you add. To which I say, True. However, lets run it out to see where it ends. What is salvation in your thinking that is different than mine? I have it to be what Jesus called it to be: ". . . that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3 (KJV) Lon, what relationship must one first have with God for beginning the possess of "knowing" God? Do you know really know any one pressing into God for such an intimate knowledge? You should be able to name hundreds. Name one. Now, what is required for "ambition" in the "saved" sinner except the deposit of the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead into his heart? We are not given to be content with 'wool' gathering ____ or are we and it isn't any of our business?

Where is God grace in all of this, Lon? What sinner saved by it, gets more of it but only by obedience? "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin". James 4:17 (KJV). God doesn't give grace to sinners. He judges them. Need evidence for that to be true in the Christians life?

It is a bit off the topic purpose of this thread, but for addressing it, I'm not Arminian.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I provided a quote that answers that succinctly in my post to which this post is a response.

No, not IMO, nor in the opinion of our Magisterium. Check out what they teach us concerning Providence, and I think you'll agree.

For instance: "why does evil exist? To this question, as pressing as it is unavoidable and as painful as it is mysterious, no quick answer will suffice. Only Christian faith as a whole constitutes the answer"

Yes, I was afraid that quote was the RCC position. Sad. And it ignores the Latin, Eastern, and Protestant Theodicies of historical significance for such a dumbed-down nothing of a no-answer.

Does that not concern you at all? Do you know anything of the historical significance of Theodicy in the Christian Faith?

 

[Cross Reference]

It is a bit off the topic purpose of this thread, but for addressing it, I'm not Arminian.

I well know you aren't and I forgive you. Does it change the truth? I think not, just maybe your opinion.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Don't merely say I did . .speak it. Where did I do so??

Right here.....

Adam, the creature, was unwillingly subjected to vanity for the purpose of creating a choice Adam would not otherwise have. A choice between obeying God or caving into the demands of his flesh. I wasn't yet born when he failed to obey God's command which sealed ALL of Adam's progeny to live with the consequences, the one being "VANITY", self, desires otherwise known as the law of the flesh Paul speaks of in Romans 7; power of sin, Jesus canceled that those who abide in Him have such power to overcome it as He did.

If Adam was subject to vanity, then vanity could not have been a consequence of his vain action.

That would be a contradiction.

You're probably the only one in this thread who missed it.

Screaming the word vanity does not change or hide the meaning of consequence.

 

[Cross Reference]

Right here.....



If Adam was subject to vanity, then vanity could not have been a consequence of his vain action.

That would be a contradiction.

You're probably the only one in this thread who missed it.

Screaming the word vanity does not change or hide the meaning of consequence.

Rom 8:20 KJV. It wasn't a consequence. It was the cause. Vanity; futile thinking, the law of the flesh, God submitted him to for the purpose of making Adam choose between God or his own lust, Life or death..


You lose!

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Originally posted by Danoh......

In other words, from empty headedness.

Vanity: empty; devoid of substance...

That is how the word vanity came to be associated with one's own ideas.

Because said ideas are devoid of any substance that God views as being of value.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Ignorance: devoid of right information about a thing.

One could say the difference between Day and Night.

Adam knew neither good nor evil.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Rom 8:20 KJV. It wasn't a consequence. It was the cause. Vanity; futile thinking, the law of the flesh, God submitted him to for the purpose of making Adam choose between God or his own lust, Life or death..


You lose!

You sir, are an idiot.

You said it was a consequence.

If Adam was subject to vanity, he could have only made one decision, that was the one he made.

He could not resist his own will.

Which was not free but was in subjection to vanity.

 

[Cross Reference]

You sir, are an idiot.

Why, because you don't understand? Whatever. That's your problem. Do your homework before coming to the table.

 

[Cross Reference]

Originally posted by Danoh......

In other words, from empty headedness.

Vanity: empty; devoid of substance...

That is how the word vanity came to be associated with one's own ideas.

Because said ideas are devoid of any substance that God views as being of value.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Ignorance: devoid of right information about a thing.

And willful ignorance? Willful ignorance can only mean one makes himslf ignorant on purpose for reasons centered in pride and selfishness. Quite a few of you on this forum.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Why, because you don't understand? Whatever. That's your problem. Do your homework before coming to the table.

I edited that post, did my homework as you call it.

 

[Nihilo]

"why does evil exist? To this question, as pressing as it is unavoidable and as painful as it is mysterious, no quick answer will suffice. Only Christian faith as a whole constitutes the answer"

The Holy Catholic faith is the solution to theodicy.

 

[Lon]

I well know you aren't and I forgive you. Does it change the truth? I think not, just maybe your opinion.

It is ergology pertaining to sotereology if you want to look further into it or start a thread.

This thread is Theology/Christology/Pneumatology.

Thanks for the forgiveness -Lon

 

[Cross Reference]

It is ergology pertaining to sotereology if you want to look further into it or start a thread.

This thread is Theology/Christology/Pneumatology.

Thanks for the forgiveness -Lon

Ergology??

If you can believe Jesus was the Christ, as I do and His mission was to reveal God in human flesh, as I believe and then die to make it possible to follow in His steps, as I also believe. Then no, it is all about Jesus Christ and His relationship to both man and God His Father orthodoxy does not touch on except to explain the how of salvation as they understand it from the same scriptures you and I read. Ever wonder how many hours in committee they must have spent before coming to a consensus that satisfied all concerned? I do.

 

[Cross Reference]

You sir, are an idiot.

You said it was a consequence.

If Adam was subject to vanity, he could have only made one decision, that was the one he made.

He could not resist his own will.

Which was not free but was in subjection to vanity.

Jesus was subjected to vanity. Satan knew it and tempted Him along the lines He was weakest the most.. same as Adam. . Jesus overcame! How did He do it is the lesson to be learned by the true Christian whose goal he knows is to be conformed to His 'Image'. Perhaps you have never been taught that part of it.

There you have it, "sir". Now speak of where I am wrong in anything of that understanding.

 

[patrick jane]

Why don't you start a thread on Theodicy? It would be sadly hilarious to hear alleged professing Believers attempt to address how to account for God and the existence of evil in His creation. I'd love to see that, and to read what the RCC position is on it.

God didn't create sin and disobedience, it happened as a natural progression of creation

 

[Cross Reference]

God didn't create sin and disobedience, it happened as a natural progression of creation

Do you mean as a natural outcome of creation? How so, especially had Adam been faithful to God? Would not Adam's progeny been rewared along the same lines as Adam or would each succeeding generation of ADam's progeny have to be subjected to the same testing given Adam?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Jesus was subjected to vanity. Satan knew it and tempted Him along the lines He was weakest the most.. same as Adam. . Jesus overcame! How did He do it is the lesson to be learned by the true Christian whose goal he knows is to be conformed to His 'Image'. Perhaps you have never been taught that part of it.

There you have it, "sir". Now speak of where I am wrong in anything of that understanding.

The difference is in that Jesus had the Holy Spirit without measure.

You and I must ask for it.

Why don't you believe Jesus?

He told us to ask for it and how persistently to ask.

Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Luke 18:1
And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.

 

[Lon]

Ergology??

If you can believe Jesus was the Christ, as I do and His mission was to reveal God in human flesh, as I believe and then die to make it possible to follow in His steps, as I also believe. Then no, it is all about Jesus Christ and His relationship to both man and God His Father orthodoxy does not touch on except to explain the how of salvation as they understand it from the same scriptures you and I read. Ever wonder how many hours in committee they must have spent before coming to a consensus that satisfied all concerned? I do.

See here (wrong thread for this, this one is only about the nature of God).

 

[Cross Reference]

See here (wrong thread for this, this one is only about the nature of God).

OK. However, can you answer this question: "And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth [in the realm of the dead, Hades] was able to open the scroll or to take a [single] look at its contents." . . . Revelation 5:3 (AMP)

Why couldn't God open it?

 

[Lon]

OK. However, can you answer this question: "And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth [in the realm of the dead, Hades] was able to open the scroll or to take a [single] look at its contents." . . . Revelation 5:3 (AMP)

Why couldn't God open it?

He could. John only surmised (or was reflecting over the need of man without Christ, which was/is our death and defeat) that none could. One of the Elders corrected him:
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders said to me, "Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals."