So whom and why Jesus asked to glorify him if he had glory?
ECT Our triune God
- Thread starter Lon
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So whom and why Jesus asked to glorify him if he had glory?
So God didn’t die and you are still in your sins up to your throat.
"a lamb without blemish".....perfect....
"Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it. But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him. And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:41-52
The Lord Jesus Christ as a youth did not dispute with the "teachers", verse 46, but instead, asks questions of them, and listened with respect to their answers. The doctors also ask him questions(v 47)=perfection as a youth, including fulfilling the Law, which required Him to go to Jerusalem at Passover(Deuteronomy 16:1)
Notice verse 49: "...wist ye not...?", i.e., How is it that you do not understand? They should of understood who He was, and thus what and why He was doing it, for He gave 7 testimonies as to who He was. See Matthew 1:20; Luke 1:26, 43, 2:9,29, 36; Mt. 2:1. He was their God and creator; and thus, the Holy Spirit would have us to know and realize that Mary should not have spoken to Him as she did, and thus His exclamation "...How is it that ye sought me...?" are understood by those "with ears to hear", and, in opposition to Mary's "thy father", the Lord Jesus Christ responds: "..that I must be about my Father's business?" He was conscious of who He was(even though many today are not). And just as this consciousness caused Him to wash the disciples feet(John 13), so it here caused Him to return with His parents to Nazareth, and in obedience be "subject"(v. 51) to them in obedience(perfection as a youth). Joseph was His father(small 's') according to Hebrew Law(Luke 3:23).
So, here we see a glimpse of Him as a perfect youth, and later, as a perfect man-perfection as a child, and perfection as a man.
His first recorded words are:
" And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? "
His last recorded words:
"...It is finished..." John 19:30
What was "finished"? Doing His Father's business.
Why (also) did the Lord Jesus Christ Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of God?
It was an allusion to a Hebrew legal tradition in which the oldest (in this case, only) son had authority to carry out legal and business affairs on behalf of the father. The son's word and authority was essentially the same as the father's. He was identifying His words and His authority with that of the Father, His Father.
"Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it. But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him. And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:41-52
The Lord Jesus Christ as a youth did not dispute with the "teachers", verse 46, but instead, asks questions of them, and listened with respect to their answers. The doctors also ask him questions(v 47)=perfection as a youth, including fulfilling the Law, which required Him to go to Jerusalem at Passover(Deuteronomy 16:1)
Notice verse 49: "...wist ye not...?", i.e., How is it that you do not understand? They should of understood who He was, and thus what and why He was doing it, for He gave 7 testimonies as to who He was. See Matthew 1:20; Luke 1:26, 43, 2:9,29, 36; Mt. 2:1. He was their God and creator; and thus, the Holy Spirit would have us to know and realize that Mary should not have spoken to Him as she did, and thus His exclamation "...How is it that ye sought me...?" are understood by those "with ears to hear", and, in opposition to Mary's "thy father", the Lord Jesus Christ responds: "..that I must be about my Father's business?" He was conscious of who He was(even though many today are not). And just as this consciousness caused Him to wash the disciples feet(John 13), so it here caused Him to return with His parents to Nazareth, and in obedience be "subject"(v. 51) to them in obedience(perfection as a youth). Joseph was His father(small 's') according to Hebrew Law(Luke 3:23).
So, here we see a glimpse of Him as a perfect youth, and later, as a perfect man-perfection as a child, and perfection as a man.
His first recorded words are:
" And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? "
His last recorded words:
"...It is finished..." John 19:30
What was "finished"? Doing His Father's business.
Why (also) did the Lord Jesus Christ Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of God?
It was an allusion to a Hebrew legal tradition in which the oldest (in this case, only) son had authority to carry out legal and business affairs on behalf of the father. The son's word and authority was essentially the same as the father's. He was identifying His words and His authority with that of the Father, His Father.
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Is. 9:6
"Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." Psalms 2:12
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" Proverbs 30:4
The child was born, the Son given; thus the Holy Spirit would declare the humanity and deity of the Messiah, the Christ. The Son was not born, He was given, for, as God, He was from Everlasting("Everlasting Father"=father of eternity=possessor of it), but, as man, He was born.
"Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." Psalms 2:12
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" Proverbs 30:4
The child was born, the Son given; thus the Holy Spirit would declare the humanity and deity of the Messiah, the Christ. The Son was not born, He was given, for, as God, He was from Everlasting("Everlasting Father"=father of eternity=possessor of it), but, as man, He was born.
Slower: Try to die. Show us you can give up the ghost. Show us any man can do this. Well?
Are you a prophet?
"Why your post have to be abusive? Don’t you have Christian maners?... except for the few of the Trinitarian clear forgeries?...Either you attend to those verses above and tell us what you suggest be done with them or you just may dance to your own tune...Can you explain how man like you could kill God?...Coming back to your silly comparison of Ex 17:2 with 1Co 10:9 once more. It is a lame goat’s attempt to claim a tree.If your claim was true you would be able to deal honestly with these verses instead of offering your rude erudition:"-jerzy
Translation. More assert, pound the podium, declare victory, return to "Sound bytes echo chamber."
"Alas, you know that all of them are fool proof texts and disqualify your story at first glance.Isa 11:1-3, 42:1+6, Eze 34:23-24, Mic 5:2, Mt 6:9, 11:25, Jn 6:23, 6:44-45, 6:65, 14:6, 14:10, 17:3, 20:17, 20:31, Ac 2:22, 2:36, 3:21, 10:36, 17:31, Ro 1:7, 1Cor 1:3, 8:6, 2Co 1:2, 5:18+21, Eph 1:3, 2:18, Ga 1:1, 1:3, Col 1:1-3, 1:12-13, Php 1:2, 1Th 1:1-3, 2Th 1:1-2, 1Ti 1:1-2, 2:5, 2Ti 1:1-2, Ti 1:4, Phm 1:3-4, Heb 1:1-2, Jam 1:1, 1Pe 1:2-3, 2Pe 1:2, 1Jn 1:2-3, 2Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1, Re 1:1."-jerzy
Genesis-Revelation-The Lord Jesus Christ is God. I just "went over the top!"
"Coming back to your silly comparison of Ex 17:2 with 1Co 10:9 once more. It is a lame goat’s attempt to claim a tree."-jerzy
Translated: Punt again. Paul refers to Christ as "the LORD" of Exodus.
Poor you.
graceandpeace
New member
Because for the pure fact that He was MADE lower than the angels..for a time. He had to be REglorified; to His former glory...and, He was..and, it is NOT flesh.
Christ was not made lower than the angels as if God became a man.
No.
Christ the man, was simply made/raised up by God, and the Bible describes how it came about.
Christ was promised his glorification before the world was, (just as being slain before the foundation of the world) not that Christ was once glorified and then de-glorified to become a man.
and why? because the Bible never mentions it.
People did not have Pauls writings at the beginning of the Church , which writings are so misused. They had the words of Jesus and the Scriptures, which never show Jesus Christ as coming or to come from Heaven to become a man.
Jesus Christ came in the flesh from His beginning, not before His beginning for without His flesh there was no Jesus the man, who Jesus Christ is according to the confession of Peter.
It was the Word of God by promise carried out in due time that God performed in raising a man in Gods own image, an only begotten son, through Mary. A son requiring the partaking of the living Word of God (the tree of life)to become like His Father, in order to then be filled with His Father in order to do the works of His Father which the Father did through Him in Word and Power.
The NT continually desribes Jesus as being a man, and while His disciples wondered at what sort of man He was, they had yet to comprehend the union of the Father in his Son as one,(from the baptism on) which is why He had said that He that has seen me has seen the Father, for no man has seen God but the son has declared (shown) Him.
LA.
Phil. 2:5-11 (note the OT quote of Isaiah applied to Jesus).
To confess Jesus as Lord is to confess Him as YHWH (Rom. 10:9-10).
He fails to distinguish issues relating to position/incarnation and essential nature/equality. Rejecting trinity/incarnation/Deity leads to mental gymnastics to try to keep Scripture coherent.
All I would point out here in response to your post would be to note that more than one contributing to this thread are accusing others of heresy, etc. while claiming to be Christians and this should hopefully suggest to the reasonable mind that there may well be more than one way to look at this subject and that the thoughts here offered are not necessarily mutually exclusive in that they spring from the same text, as it were.
graceandpeace
New member
I agree...we all do it in some ways pertaining to the things we do not yet comprehend..but, the problem with this is that it is a major thing we need to understand.
graceandpeace
New member
LA:
I would have to disagree with you on this, LA...I didnt understand what you meant about the bible not being available...you do believe it is the inspired word of God, don't you?
What do you do with this?
Hbr 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
1. He was made lower than the angels.
2. Through His death, He regained glory and honour.
Hbr 2:10 ¶ For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
1. for through HIM, are all things...and,
2. in order to bring many sons to glory.
How did I miss this thread? If you want to shut down these evil non-triune believers, it's real easy.... Show them some scripture teaching this docterine! :doh:
Perhaps you could start with the beginning of the "ekklēsia" As Peter lead 3000 to Christ that day! ...
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Jesus? Why not... in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost)? for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." 40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
3000 saved and not one documented triune believer... :think:
Oh well, since your the triune believer, you show those evil guys the need to be a triune believer in scripture.
See... all done with no... "waste of bandwidth and time from my experience" ... Just use scripture!
Paul
Read it again.
Read it closer
Jesus was not made flesh. The word was made flesh and the flesh was Jesus , who is the image of God thus not God who made Him.
Jesus was made the captain of salvation by Him who made all things.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
People do not come to the truth by reading the scriptures and reasoning alone. The scriptures encourage people to go to the Lord and ask Him what the scriptures mean and He will explain them as we are able to comprehend and bear them as we obey Him in what He says.
I can not teach anyone anything except to show what scripture actually states.
Now we all ought know the difference between Lord as master and Lord as God Almighty yet the brilliant godrulz with all of his years of studying either does not or he deliberately deceives people .
However the gullable who do not lean on the God of Israel are easily deceived and have no right to know the truth anyway.
You have a view on who Jesus is, and you just keep placing scripture into it regardless of what the scripture actually states, like most people on most things.
It does not worry me as God places people in their right mind and what they do after is their own decision if they want it that way and most do.
LA.
Jesus is a created being, the Messiah, Gods son through Mary, a man filled at His Baptism with the Spirit of the Almighty God, only as for a mortal man can be, until permanence in fulness at His resurrection and further glorification in His ascension to Gods Throne to reign as God over the new creation.
Either you attend to those verses below and tell us what you suggest be done with them or you just may dance to your own tune contravening TOL rules.
Isa 11:1-3, 42:1+6, Eze 34:23-24, Mic 5:2, Mt 6:9, 11:25, Jn 6:23, 6:44-45, 6:65, 14:6, 14:10, 17:3, 20:17, 20:31, Ac 2:22, 2:36, 3:21, 10:36, 17:31, Ro 1:7, 1Cor 1:3, 8:6, 2Co 1:2, 5:18+21, Eph 1:3, 2:18, Ga 1:1, 1:3, Col 1:1-3, 1:12-13, Php 1:2, 1Th 1:1-3, 2Th 1:1-2, 1Ti 1:1-2, 2:5, 2Ti 1:1-2, Ti 1:4, Phm 1:3-4, Heb 1:1-2, Jam 1:1, 1Pe 1:2-3, 2Pe 1:2, 1Jn 1:2-3, 2Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1, Re 1:1.
What means that he was made lower then angels? Was Jesus God the Father Almighty who was then made lower then angels?
Who could dethrone God the Almighty Father?
Really?
...every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father
Really?
...shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
luz.
Didn’t you notice that every time you come up you just prove your scriptural ignorance beyond doubt?
You don’t need to continue proving your point.
We already know who you are.
Is that sooooo?
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Do you think that God is a God of confusion?
Can you tell what to do with hundreds of such fool proof texts?
Isa 11:1-3, 42:1+6, Eze 34:23-24, Mic 5:2, Mt 6:9, 11:25, Jn 6:23, 6:44-45, 6:65, 14:6, 14:10, 17:3, 20:17, 20:31, Ac 2:22, 2:36, 3:21, 10:36, 17:31, Ro 1:7, 1Cor 1:3, 8:6, 2Co 1:2, 5:18+21, Eph 1:3, 2:18, Ga 1:1, 1:3, Col 1:1-3, 1:12-13, Php 1:2, 1Th 1:1-3, 2Th 1:1-2, 1Ti 1:1-2, 2:5, 2Ti 1:1-2, Ti 1:4, Phm 1:3-4, Heb 1:1-2, Jam 1:1, 1Pe 1:2-3, 2Pe 1:2, 1Jn 1:2-3, 2Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1, Re 1:1.