ECT Our triune God

[jerzy]

All I would point out here in response to your post would be to note that more than one contributing to this thread are accusing others of heresy, etc. while claiming to be Christians and this should hopefully suggest to the reasonable mind that there may well be more than one way to look at this subject and that the thoughts here offered are not necessarily mutually exclusive in that they spring from the same text, as it were.

Do you think that God is a God of confusion?

Can you tell what to do with hundreds of such fool proof texts?

Isa 11:1-3, 42:1+6, Eze 34:23-24, Mic 5:2, Mt 6:9, 11:25, Jn 6:23, 6:44-45, 6:65, 14:6, 14:10, 17:3, 20:17, 20:31, Ac 2:22, 2:36, 3:21, 10:36, 17:31, Ro 1:7, 1Cor 1:3, 8:6, 2Co 1:2, 5:18+21, Eph 1:3, 2:18, Ga 1:1, 1:3, Col 1:1-3, 1:12-13, Php 1:2, 1Th 1:1-3, 2Th 1:1-2, 1Ti 1:1-2, 2:5, 2Ti 1:1-2, Ti 1:4, Phm 1:3-4, Heb 1:1-2, Jam 1:1, 1Pe 1:2-3, 2Pe 1:2, 1Jn 1:2-3, 2Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1, Re 1:1.

Didn’t you know that the Trinitarians confess to their forgeries?

The reason our Bibles translate logos as word is that Jerome, a monk of the early fifth century, mistranslated it as verbum. Jerome’s Vulgate, as it is called, became the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church, and the texts Jerome used have become the mainstay of contemporary liberal versions. The Latin term Verbum became Word in English.
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=255

The One Year Chronological NIV Bible states in foot note on page 1615 that the part about three heavenly witnesses was inserted to 1Jn 5:7-8 in 16th century.

The part about baptism in Mt 28:19 wasn’t used by the pioneers of triune god. That Peter clearly states in Ac 2:38 that they had to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. That all recorded in the Bible were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[graceandpeace]

What means that he was made lower then angels? Was Jesus God the Father Almighty who was then made lower then angels?

Who could dethrone God the Almighty Father?

It is not about Him, (Jesus) dethroning God the Father, it is about Him, (Jesus), coming in the form of flesh; of HIS OWN FREEWILL, choosing from the beginning as GOD to humbly be the EXAMPLE of what His OWN law of agape LOVE would prove to us:

Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:


Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

He did this WILLINGLY..to show us an EXAMPLE of what the type of agape LOVE is...He demonstrated it so that we could KNOW the true love of God. What kind of God do you serve?

The whole of the bible is the story of HOW God, through Jesus Christ is OUR example...every false teaching is rooted in one thing: Not understanding the agape LOVE OF GOD, that Jesus Himself came to express to all men, WILLINGLY. It is not like the 'love' of humans..it is a different type of love, for God is this type. No greater love can a man have than this...that a man lay down His life for His brethren. I know you know the text....in this way; GOD, whom was from the BEGINNING had put in place a plan that HE HIMSELF would of HIS own will lay down HIS Life to save us.

He gave it up willingly, and, He also had the power to take it up again:

JESUS did...even while on this earth; in the form of the flesh, and He said that:

Jhn 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.


Jhn 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

He spoke here very plainly that it was HIM that had the power to do this..He spoke of the Father, but He did that as in the form of flesh; not that the Father was a different or Higher God....Jesus Himself had the power, for He was God; IS God, and there is NONE besides Him.

The Father was the 'office' that He spoke to us through the prophets..it was the SAME God, that was made flesh; and had the power to lay down His life.

 

[Gill White]

Jhn 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

graceandpeace, who gave Him the commandment, read on, and don't stop.

Jhn 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Jesus received this commandment from His Father.

 

[graceandpeace]

Quote:
Originally Posted by graceandpeace
LA:




I would have to disagree with you on this, LA...I didnt understand what you meant about the bible not being available...you do believe it is the inspired word of God, don't you?

Hi LA, you said:

Read it again.

everytime I read it, it says the same thing.


I said:

Quote:
What do you do with this?

Hbr 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1. He was made lower than the angels.
2. Through His death, He regained glory and honour.

LA:

Read it closer

Jesus was not made flesh. The word was made flesh and the flesh was Jesus , who is the image of God thus not God who made Him.

The Word was made flesh, and the flesh was Jesus..yes...but, the Word WAS God:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

There ya have it. You cannot deny such a plain verse.

Unless you want to say it does not exist.

I cannot do that.


I said:

Quote:
Hbr 2:10 ¶ For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

El:

Jesus was made the captain of salvation by Him who made all things.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

and. the bible says..that it was JESUS whom created all things:

Eph 3:9
And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

So, you see....God, whom was the Word...also was the creator..and, we must interpret the verses in question, by what it plainly says...God created all things, by Jesus Christ...of which here is another example that proves that, again:


Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,


Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Before Jesus came in the flesh...He was with God, and He was God. It is hard to understand, but we understand it by faith...I don't ask questions...I just accept it. In my opinion, it is one of the ways we become as 'little children' whom are just willing to BELIEVE. It is when we begin to question God, that pride enters in.

That is how I see it.



Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Hbr 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

ONLY God could perform what Jesus did.





Quote:
1. for through HIM, are all things...and,
2. in order to bring many sons to glory.


Heb 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

People do not come to the truth by reading the scriptures and reasoning alone. The scriptures encourage people to go to the Lord and ask Him what the scriptures mean and He will explain them as we are able to comprehend and bear them as we obey Him in what He says.

I can not teach anyone anything except to show what scripture actually states.

Now we all ought know the difference between Lord as master and Lord as God Almighty yet the brilliant godrulz with all of his years of studying either does not or he deliberately deceives people .

However the gullable who do not lean on the God of Israel are easily deceived and have no right to know the truth anyway.

You have a view on who Jesus is, and you just keep placing scripture into it regardless of what the scripture actually states, like most people on most things.

It does not worry me as God places people in their right mind and what they do after is their own decision if they want it that way and most do.


LA.

 

[graceandpeace]

graceandpeace, who gave Him the commandment, read on, and don't stop.

Jhn 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Jesus received this commandment from His Father.

He said, HE had the power to take it again, and HE had the power to lay it down of HIMself. When He spoke of the commandment of the Father, He was speaking of the OFFICE of the Father...not the 'other God'..there is but ONE God, whom holds different 'offices', and, that ONLY due to one fact...God spoke to mankind through these different 'offices'.

For example..let me use a human example to explain this.

We have a earthy father.

That earthy father has 'different' modes of opperation.
That same earthy father can be a 'father'...but, he is also a 'son'...he also can be a 'husband'...but, the same UNIT, is ONE man. It is the same with God...He is ONE God, but displayed Himself in different roles.

This is the true form of 'trinity'..it NEVER taught three gods...it teaches ONE God in three modes of opperation...and, these three modes...are co equal, co eternal, because they are all the same ONE unit...God.

 

[jerzy]

The Word was made flesh, and the flesh was Jesus..yes...but, the Word WAS God:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

There ya have it. You cannot deny such a plain verse.

Unless you want to say it does not exist.

I cannot do that.

Instead of peddling pagan fables why don't you learn from your own Trinitarian scholars?

The reason our Bibles translate logos as word is that Jerome, a monk of the early fifth century, mistranslated it as verbum. Jerome’s Vulgate, as it is called, became the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church, and the texts Jerome used have become the mainstay of contemporary liberal versions. The Latin term Verbum became Word in English.
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=255

and. the bible says..that it was JESUS whom created all things:

Eph 3:9
And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Only your crocked Trinitarian translation makes it as if Jesus created all things of the old.

If you knew the Bible you would have known that the Father the only true God created all things for / on account of Jesus whom He raised from David's seed.

Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

God appointed God.

Well.

This is like you appoint your Father to be in charge of his wealth.

ONLY God could perform what Jesus did.

It would help to speak from the scriptures instead of one's imagination:

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

 

[Gill White]

He said, HE had the power to take it again, and HE had the power to lay it down of HIMself. When He spoke of the commandment of the Father, He was speaking of the OFFICE of the Father...not the 'other God'..there is but ONE God, whom holds different 'offices', and, that ONLY due to one fact...God spoke to mankind through these different 'offices'.

For example..let me use a human example to explain this.

We have a earthy father.

That earthy father has 'different' modes of opperation.
That same earthy father can be a 'father'...but, he is also a 'son'...he also can be a 'husband'...but, the same UNIT, is ONE man. It is the same with God...He is ONE God, but displayed Himself in different roles.

This is the true form of 'trinity'..it NEVER taught three gods...it teaches ONE God in three modes of opperation...and, these three modes...are co equal, co eternal, because they are all the same ONE unit...God.

I see in your profile picture, (there is a lady and son in there) in that picture you have a son. Is that son of yours displaying a different role of yourself, and is not really himself. Is he 100% you and 100% your son, but only being in a different office of yourself. Or is your son just an offspring of yourself and in your likeness.

Your son may carry some of your nature and he may be in the likeness of you in many of your ways, but your son is not YOU, Your Son is never YOU. He may show some likeness of you, and may walk in some of your ways. He can be the splitting image of YOU or your husband, but he can never be totally you or your husband, because you gave birth to a son.

You begat a son in your own likeness, after your own image

Gen 5:3
(3) And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Jesus is the image of God, and God speaks plainly.

2Co 4:4
(4) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[jerzy]

He said, HE had the power to take it again, and HE had the power to lay it down of HIMself. When He spoke of the commandment of the Father, He was speaking of the OFFICE of the Father...not the 'other God'..there is but ONE God, whom holds different 'offices', and, that ONLY due to one fact...God spoke to mankind through these different 'offices'.

Would you mind to check what Jesus says instead of ridiculing yourself?

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[SovereigntyIsGods]

Would you mind to check what Jesus says instead of ridiculing yourself?

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

You guys like to transform the humility of Christ into a claim of being a non-deity.

 

[graceandpeace]

:chuckle:

Instead of peddling pagan fables why don't you learn from your own Trinitarian scholars?

The reason our Bibles translate logos as word is that Jerome, a monk of the early fifth century, mistranslated it as verbum. Jerome’s Vulgate, as it is called, became the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church, and the texts Jerome used have become the mainstay of contemporary liberal versions. The Latin term Verbum became Word in English.
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=255



Only your crocked Trinitarian translation makes it as if Jesus created all things of the old.

If you knew the Bible you would have known that the Father the only true God created all things for / on account of Jesus whom He raised from David's seed.



God appointed God.

Well.

This is like you appoint your Father to be in charge of his wealth.



It would help to speak from the scriptures instead of one's imagination:

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

If you want to believe Jesus was not fully God, that is your choice. I reject it.

 

[graceandpeace]

You guys like to transform the humility of Christ into a claim of being a non-deity.

Exactly...what other way could God show who He was, without being the EXAMPLE...Himself.

 

[graceandpeace]

Would you mind to check what Jesus says instead of ridiculing yourself?

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

and, what did Jesus say? If you have seen Him, you have seen the FATHER...they are one and the same.

Yet, you will nit pick it til you unravel His whole purpose, eh?

 

[jerzy]

You guys like to transform the humility of Christ into a claim of being a non-deity.

So you admit that you don't even know who said this:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[jerzy]

If you want to believe Jesus was not fully God, that is your choice. I reject it.

Do you think it is a wise decision to reject this?

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[jerzy]

Exactly...what other way could God show who He was, without being the EXAMPLE...Himself.

Don’t pretend to be blind:

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

 

[jerzy]

and, what did Jesus say? If you have seen Him, you have seen the FATHER...they are one and the same.

Yet, you will nit pick it til you unravel His whole purpose, eh?

Didn't he say this?

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Or this

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

No good to pretend being blind:

Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

 

[graceandpeace]

Didn't he say this?

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Or this

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

No good to pretend being blind:

Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

well, when you take it out of context of the rest of the bible..it would appear Jesus was a lesser than the Father, but He was speaking of as means to His lesser role...as in the form of flesh.

Context....is important.

I get kidded on here for saying that, but it is true.

 

[jerzy]

well, when you take it out of context of the rest of the bible..it would appear Jesus was a lesser than the Father, but He was speaking of as means to His lesser role...as in the form of flesh.

Context....is important.

I get kidded on here for saying that, but it is true.

Take a look at few of hundreds fool proof contexts:

Isa 11:1-3, 42:1+6, Eze 34:23-24, Mic 5:2, Mt 6:9, 11:25, Jn 6:23, 6:44-45, 6:65, 14:6, 14:10, 17:3, 20:17, 20:31, Ac 2:22, 2:36, 3:21, 10:36, 17:31, Ro 1:7, 1Cor 1:3, 8:6, 2Co 1:2, 5:18+21, Eph 1:3, 2:18, Ga 1:1, 1:3, Col 1:1-3, 1:12-13, Php 1:2, 1Th 1:1-3, 2Th 1:1-2, 1Ti 1:1-2, 2:5, 2Ti 1:1-2, Ti 1:4, Phm 1:3-4, Heb 1:1-2, Jam 1:1, 1Pe 1:2-3, 2Pe 1:2, 1Jn 1:2-3, 2Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1, Re 1:1.

 

[godrulz]

None of jerzy's verses are a problem for a triune view. :baby:

Jn. 17:3 has been answered repeatedly, so time to wipe the dust off our feet and move on.

 

[jerzy]

None of jerzy's verses are a problem for a triune view. :baby:

Jn. 17:3 has been answered repeatedly, so time to wipe the dust off our feet and move on.

Yes, luz.

You still didn't decide:

- Whether the eternal life is for them to know the Father the only pagan god

Or

- Whether the eternal life is for them to know the Father the only true Satan.


As a matter of fact you should have gone long ago to avoid embarrassment every time you come up with your baloney "views".