Origin of the Cross

CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
the_ancient_tau_symbol_by_victorianspectre-d7ik5xv.jpg
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
The Babylonians and Romans did hang people on a cross when they sacrificed to their pagan sun god. There is no reason to believe that Yahshua was a sacrifice to the Pagans sun god.
 
beameup

beameup

New member
SonOfCaleb said:
Well its definition is obviously not restricted just to a "pole through the body". Here's wiki's definition of impalement:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impalement

Jesus was nailed to a stake and had a spear driven into his torso. Sounds like impalement to me...
Click to expand...

I think it has clearly been shown to the YHWH-Witnesses that the method of execution evolved from the simple Assyrian "impalement" to the Roman use of nails to attach the victim to a wooden structure with outstretched arms and the ability to "lift" oneself with the legs.
We are "aware" of the YHWH-Witness hatred of the cross.
 
Last edited:
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot]The cross[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"By the early 3rd century, the cross had become so closely associated with Christ that Clement of Alexandria, who died between 211 and 216, could without fear of ambiguity use the phrase (the Lord's sign) to mean the cross..."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]His contemporary Tertullian could designate the body of Christian believers as crucis religiosi ("devotees of the Cross"). In his book De Corona, written in 204, Tertullian tells how it was already a tradition for Christians to trace repeatedly on their foreheads the sign of the cross. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Jewish Encyclopaedia states:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The cross as a Christian symbol or "seal" came into use at least as early as the second century (see "Apost. Const." iii. 17; Epistle of Barnabas, xi.-xii.; Justin, "Apologia," i. 55-60; "Dial. *** Tryph." 85-97); and the marking of a cross upon the forehead and the chest was regarded as a talisman against the powers of demons (Tertullian, "De Corona," iii.; Cyprian, "Testimonies," xi. 21-22; Lactantius, "Divinæ Institutiones," iv. 27, and elsewhere). Accordingly the Christian Fathers had to defend themselves, as early as the second century, against the charge of being worshipers of the cross, as may be learned from Tertullian, "Apologia," xii., xvii., and Minucius Felix, "Octavius," xxix. Christians used to swear by the power of the cross.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 
S

SonOfCaleb

Active member
Nick M said:
Since you want to quote wikipedia....
Click to expand...

You're just repeating yourself. You believe in your magical idolatrous cross i get it.

I'm not interested in sources that say 'likely, 'maybe', 'possibly' all i care about is empiricism and facts. Ive presented mine which are irrefutable. You've not presented any. Either way your post has nothing to do with my previous point to the other poster regarding impalement.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
SonOfCaleb said:
Your conviction on your position is quite ironic as there is NO SECULAR evidence that proves Jesus was nailed to a cross. All the available secular evidence actually points to Jesus being nailed to an upright stake, not a cross.

Your dismissal of history and the pagan origins of the cross, an emblem which was later adopted by Christendom to appease newer pagan converts, in deference for what is nothing more than fabled Christendom dogma is quite telling. Either way the pertinent point is veneration of the cross is idolatrous.
Why you'd want to worship the object that killed Christ is beyond me. Why not worship the Roman flagrum that was used to whip him as well. Then again sections of Christendom venerate the so called "Turin Shroud" (death mask) as well, a proven fraud. Seeing as the veneration of even the decayed body parts of 'Saints' was popular among so called Christians it shouldn't be too surprising the acceptance of such a scurrilous ideology.
Click to expand...
It is not the cross that is worshipped, but God and what He accomplished by the cross!
 
S

SonOfCaleb

Active member
heir said:
It is not the cross that is worshipped, but God and what He accomplished by the cross!
Click to expand...

Because God needs an inanimate useless object to accomplish his will. Are you guys listening to yourselves?!?!?!

Isaiah wrote about this foolishness in Isaiah 44:14-18

There is one whose work is to cut down cedars.
He selects a certain type of tree, an oak,
And he lets it grow strong among the trees of the forest.
He plants a laurel tree, and the rain makes it grow.
15 Then it becomes fuel for a man to make fires.
He takes part of it to warm himself;
He builds a fire and bakes bread.
But he also makes a god and worships it.
He makes it into a carved image, and he bows down before it.
16 Half of it he burns up in a fire;
With that half he roasts the meat that he eats, and he is satisfied.
He also warms himself and says:
“Ah! I am warm as I watch the fire.”
17 But the rest of it he makes into a god, into his carved image.
He bows down to it and worships it.
He prays to it and says:
“Save me, for you are my god.”
18 They know nothing, they understand nothing,
Because their eyes are sealed shut and they cannot see,
And their heart has no insight.
Click to expand...

That verse should let you know what God thinks of these useless idols along with the empty reasoning of the ones who venerate them.
 
Nameless.In.Grace

Nameless.In.Grace

BANNED
Banned
jamie said:
The name "Jesus" is Iēsous which is transliterated into English as Jesus for those of us who don't speak Greek.

What Hebrew word is jehovah transliterated from?
Click to expand...

Jamie,

I thought the author of this topic was a JW, but I was wrong.

I brought up the verses from the JW NWT that show the deity of Jesus, because this discussion is a common JW teaching. It's typically taught to undermine confidence in other translations and systems of theology.

But Jehovah comes from the Tetragrammaton.

The Hebrew

9450af9d94b270d131080a26f518ada5.jpg


The thing is, in English, the Y could also be a J, but most likely not. The W could be a V, but the general consensus is that it is indeed a W.

Hence, YHWH

The vowels, as I'm sure you know, have been lost. They were never there, except for the Hebrew oral record of the name, which is believed to be lost.

The closest we can assume is of course YaHWaH.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
It has taken me twenty years to get the Christian community to acknowledge that Yahwah is the proper name of God. Well, at least there is forward motion. :)
 
Last edited:
S

SonOfCaleb

Active member
jamie said:
But why assume? Why not stick with what is written?
Click to expand...

Because whats written was originally in Hebrew. And ancient Hebrew had no vowels. So no one knows. Fundamentally its an irrelavent point. Words convey meaning. When the word Yahweh or Jehovah is used the author and the reader know who is being refered to. To get hung up on the pedantics of transliteration misses the point entirely.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
CherubRam said:
The Babylonians and Romans did hang people on a cross when they sacrificed to their pagan sun god. There is no reason to believe that Yahshua was a sacrifice to the Pagans sun god.
Click to expand...

Yeshua was no sacrifice at all. He was crucified because his disciples had decided to acclaim him king of the Jews in Jerusalem, a Roman province which was a crime bordering on insurrection. That's why Pilate commanded to nail his verdict on the top of his cross which read INRI. (Luke 19:37-40)
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
SonOfCaleb said:
Because whats written was originally in Hebrew. And ancient Hebrew had no vowels. So no one knows.
Click to expand...

Since no one knows, why make up words? Why not just refer to him as our Father? Jesus did.

I never did address my human father by his given name.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Ben Masada said:
Yeshua was no sacrifice at all. He was crucified because his disciples had decided to acclaim him king of the Jews in Jerusalem, a Roman province which was a crime bordering on insurrection. That's why Pilate commanded to nail his verdict on the top of his cross which read INRI. (Luke 19:37-40)
Click to expand...
Wrong again Ben. The Hellenistic Jews who were in control of the temple and priesthood at that time, they demanded that the Romans put him to death.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top