Origin of the Cross

[Cruciform]

The J W translation is also a mistake. Quote: "...the New World Translation, goes so far as to translate "cross" and "crucify" as "torture stake" and "impale." It should read "stake," and "staked out." Christ was not impaled.

Post #74

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Evidence is proven or disproved by what the Bible says, not what Josephus says.

There are numerous secular sources that prove Jesus wasn't imapled on a cross not just Josephus Antiquites.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Neither the Hebrew Bible nor the NT are secular with regard to their source material.

:duh: Well of course they aren't...although incidentally some books such as Joshua did lend material from secular sources that were not divinely inspired such as the book of Jashar...But my point which il repeat for the final time is the evidence secular as well as Biblical throughly debunks your assertion.

The word "jehovah" is not biblical.

You can repeat this as many times as you want. It wasn't any truer the last time you said it, nor is it this time. The reality is this sentence is an unashamed ignorant lie.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

The J W translation is also a mistake. Quote: "...the New World Translation, goes so far as to translate "cross" and "crucify" as "torture stake" and "impale."

It should read "stake," and "staked out." Christ was not impaled.

How was he not impaled? He had nails driven through him into a stake? Is that not impaled....

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?118419-Origin-of-the-Cross&p=4738603&viewfull=1#post4738603

See my post #39 Herodtotus uses the same expression "impaled on a stake".

 

[Nick M]

There are numerous secular sources that prove Jesus wasn't imapled on a cross not just Josephus Antiquites.

1 Corinthians 1

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Go ahead and tell us what it really says.


edit: I just put this through the search engine (as though the type of crucifixion matters) and the Greek word is "moria" and the verb form is "moros". Paul was calling them morons. That is where we get the word "moron", an especially offensive word, by design. Paul, the original truth smacker.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

1 Corinthians 1

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Go ahead and tell us what it really says.


edit: I just put this through the search engine (as though the type of crucifixion matters) and the Greek word is "moria" and the verb form is "moros". Paul was calling them morons. That is where we get the word "moron", an especially offensive word, by design. Paul, the original truth smacker.

I'll ignore your petty ad hominem....

I just put Stauros (σταυρός) and Google revealed this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stauros

In Homeric and classical Greek, until the early 4th century BC, stauros meant an upright stake, pole,[5][6] or piece of paling, "on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground."[7]

In the literature of that time, it never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always one piece alone.[8

If you have a look in the Sinai Codex is says the same thing http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=38&chapter=1&lid=en&side=r&verse=18&zoomSlider=0.

Stake, or ϲταυροϲ or σταυρός. Both mean stake in Greek NOT cross.

 

[john w]

"lashing out" at everyone?
"mischaracterizing" what is posted?
Sounds like a "mental" issue...

Nice sound byte, cliche....Quite weighty.

Take your seat.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Rubbish on your part.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Um, there is evidence of things unseen.


Paul asks us to Have evidence and even explains that our faith is based on it. There is a whole world out there that ask for more than just bible verses.

If God could step out of eternity.... Figuratively spoken, to enter time and walk and die amongst us at our own hands, wouldn't it make sense for us to be studied to give a defense for what we profess that many might rejoice in Jesus's sacrifice for us?

1st Corinthians 15

Resurrection Essential to the Faith
12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say, “There is no resurrection of the dead”? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation is without foundation, and so is your faith.[d] 15 In addition, we are found to be false witnesses about God, because we have testified about God that He raised up Christ—whom He did not raise up if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, Christ has not been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Therefore, those who have fallen asleep in Christ have also perished. 19 If we have put our hope in Christ for this life only, we should be pitied more than anyone.

 

[CherubRam]

How was he not impaled? He had nails driven through him into a stake? Is that not impaled....

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?118419-Origin-of-the-Cross&p=4738603&viewfull=1#post4738603

See my post #39 Herodtotus uses the same expression "impaled on a stake".

Impalement is where they run a pole through your body.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Impalement is where they run a pole through your body.

Well its definition is obviously not restricted just to a "pole through the body". Here's wiki's definition of impalement:-

Impalement, as a method of execution, is the penetration of a human by an object such as a stake, pole, spear, or hook, often by complete or partial perforation of the torso.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impalement

Jesus was nailed to a stake and had a spear driven into his torso. Sounds like impalement to me...

 

[jamie]

You can repeat this as many times as you want. It wasn't any truer the last time you said it, nor is it this time.

Is jehovah a Hebrew word, an Aramaic word, or a Greek word?

 

[patrick jane]

Is jehovah a Hebrew word, an Aramaic word, or a Greek word?

Chinese

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Is jehovah a Hebrew word, an Aramaic word, or a Greek word?

Is Jesus a Hebrew word, an Aramaic word, or a Greek word? Your logic is flawed.

 

[jamie]

Is Jesus a Hebrew word, an Aramaic word, or a Greek word? Your logic is flawed.

The name "Jesus" is Iēsous which is transliterated into English as Jesus for those of us who don't speak Greek.

What Hebrew word is jehovah transliterated from?

 

[SonOfCaleb]

The name "Jesus" is Iēsous which is transliterated into English as Jesus for those of us who don't speak Greek.

What Hebrew word is jehovah transliterated from?

Jesus isn't a Greek name buddy. Its Hebrew.....The Greek transliteration of the name is rendered Iesous from the Hebrew which is Yeshua. So using your logic Jesus which is the anglicized version of the name the same as Jehovah is is spurious.

And the Hebrew name for Jehovah is YHWH. When anglicized into English it becomes Jehovah. The E and A are added for vowels in English as ancient Hebrew didn't have vowels, and the Y becomes a J in English as does the W which is pronounced a V in English. Jehovah is the English rendition for those who don't speak Hebrew...

Phonetically the likely correct pronunciation of Gods name is "Ye.Ho.Wah" in English. The Jewish posters here can confirm.

So fundamentally your lack of understanding of transliteration and linguistics (along with your refusal of facts) is the reason for your inability to accept the name Jehovah which is Gods name in ENGLISH, a name that has been used in English by Theologians for nearly a millennia.

 

[jamie]

And the Hebrew name for Jehovah is YHWH.

And so the KJV translators always translated YHWH as jehovah, right?

 

[jamie]

Jesus isn't a Greek name buddy. Its Hebrew.....The Greek transliteration of the name is rendered Iesous from the Hebrew which is Yeshua.

The Greek Iesous is used 983 times in the NT. Yeshua is not used once.

 

[Nick M]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impalement

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, dealing specifically with the crucifixion of Jesus, says it is most likely that the stauros had a transverse in the form of a crossbeam

Since you want to quote wikipedia....

 

[Ben Masada]

Um, there is evidence of things unseen.

Yes, but one must go to sleep and have a dream.

Paul asks us to Have evidence and even explains that our faith is based on it. There is a whole world out there that ask for more than just bible verses.

That's the Christian world that is supposed to walk by faith and not by sight. By dreams and not
by understanding. (II Cor. 5:7)

If God could step out of eternity.... Figuratively spoken, to enter time and walk and die amongst us at our own hands, wouldn't it make sense for us to be studied to give a defense for what we profess that many might rejoice in Jesus's sacrifice for us?

The metaphor "to step out of eternity" is akin to commit suicide or to wait for death to happen.
It is out of question as God is concerned.

1st Corinthians 15 Resurrection Essential to the Faith.

Hence resurrection is an unseen evidence. In other words, it did not happen but in the dreams of Paul. (II Timothy 2:8)It means that it was according to the gospel of Paul and not to the gospel of any one else preaching a different gospel at the time.

12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say, “There is no resurrection of the dead”?

The Prophets said there was no bodily resurrection. (II Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9)

13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation is without foundation, and so is your faith.

Here, Paul would condition the resurrection of Jesus to that of the dead. This is evidence that there would be no evidence. One had to trust faith to believe.

15 In addition, we are found to be false witnesses about God, because we have testified about God that He raised up Christ—whom He did not raise up if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, Christ has not been raised.

Here, Paul warns all to exercise faith in order not to be found false witnesses about God.

17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Therefore, those who have fallen asleep in Christ have also perished.

Hence, the resurrection enhances faith. That's what Paul meant. IOW, do not stop teaching about the resurrection of Jesus or faith will be worthless and the Law will take the power of faith and bring back the need of repentance because of the sins in all of us.

19 If we have put our hope in Christ for this life only, we should be pitied more than anyone.

Here, we have back the influence of the treat and the dog. If the owner does not promise a treat to the dog, he will never do what the master says or perform as the master expects. The resurrection is the treat and the dog is the one who expects that reward to exercise faith.

 

[CherubRam]

[FONT=&quot]Parable of the mark[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These parables are a reference to Yahshua hanging on a stake. Take note that the word "mark" is singular, not plural. The Old Testament says that the Messiah would be hung on a tree in one place, and on a pole, stake, or post in the others. It takes two marks to make a cross.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Genesis 4:15[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ezekiel 9:4[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ezekiel 9:6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]