Origin of the Cross

Nameless.In.Grace

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Origin of the Cross

Slower-pay attention to her "argument:"

"is not in the original writings."-her

"You have these "original writings?"-saint John W


That is deception, as these "original writings" bit the dust, thousands of years ago.

John,

Do you take the time to study other denominations out of the 20,000 plus, besides your own.

This is a Jehovahs witnesses textbook rhetoric that the watch tower teaches.

Instead of being rude, you could recognize the origin of her argument and speak to her with respect from scripture.

I chose to use the text I'm almost certain she uses because that's what she is locked into by religious adherence.

Any other place and she would have been uncomfortable even reading it.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
I thought that was obvious...the text is the Bible.....

More, deception. What is this "the text?" "the Bible?" Identify it. There is just one "the text," just one "the Bible?" Where can we get a copy?

Deception-you "argued:"

"What I'm talking about are deliberate interpolations or deliberate corruptions of the text"-you

So, "the bible," "the text," was corrupted? What "the original" "the bible" would that be, that was corrupted?


Clueless. You need to fold, as you just read that, on a website, and are just winging it.
 

SonOfCaleb

Active member
Who knows? English versions are translated from Hebrew and from Greek, the word "jehovah" is neither. It is made up.

You have to be incredibly ignorant to make such an absurd claim. Put religion to one side for a moment and just consider the sheer weight of secular evidence that thoroughly debunks and disproves this ridiculous position. But you can't because not only are you Biblically illiterate you're historically illiterate to.
 

john w

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Hall of Fame
John,

Do you take the time to study other denominations out of the 20,000 plus, besides your own.

This is a Jehovahs witnesses textbook rhetoric that the watch tower teaches.

Instead of being rude, you could recognize the origin of her argument and speak to her with respect from scripture.

Request denied.

And those employed by the US government, to identify fake currency, bills, know "the genuine article," i.e, genuine dollar bills.......to be able to "spot" the fake.

That is what I do.

Move along, with your "on the sideline" boo the players/troops. You're beginning to bore me.

Can you dig it?
 

Danoh

New member
Sup Danoh,

Did you read the words of my post before you started speaking harshly. It is the one place in the JW bible that cites Jesus as Jehovah. I was sharing with a sister in Christ.

But hey, I remember Jesus going around and making fun of people that were struggling as well. Could you shoot me those verses where Jesus is an a hole.

I keep forgetting them.

So much for your nameless in grace.

Of what good is this so called grace of yours that you can't "suffer" a buffeting "when ye be buffeted."

Sup on that :chuckle:
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Request denied.

And those employed by the US government, to identify fake currency, bills, know "the genuine article," i.e, genuine dollar bills.......to be able to "spot" the fake.

That is what I do.

Move along, with your "on the sideline" boo the players/troops.

John,

What good is a testimony that makes all of Jesus followers look stupid.

By being a man of harshness you are violating Jesus teachings.

Perhaps you should consider the ways scripture teach us to discuss differences.

This girl isn't Islam, she's a sister in Christ stuck in a prison of religious fear.

But hey....

Maybe you can shoot me those Jesus was a total Jerk to people in need scriptures. Otherwise, maybe you could see how your words look.
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Banned
So much for your nameless in grace.

Of what good is this so called grace of yours that you can't "suffer" a buffeting "when ye be buffeted."

Sup on that :chuckle:

I can see your point.

Chuckle....

Um.... If your butt hurt because of what I said, I have some BH be gone that I would gladly provide free of charge. ; )
 

SonOfCaleb

Active member
More, deception. What is this "the text?" "the Bible?" Identify it. There is just one "the text," just one "the Bible?" Where can we get a copy?

Deception-you "argued:"

"What I'm talking about are deliberate interpolations or deliberate corruptions of the text"-you

So, "the bible," "the text," was corrupted? What "the original" "the bible" would that be, that was corrupted?


Clueless. You need to fold, as you just read that, on a website, and are just winging it.

What are you blabbering on about? I've not read anything on any website. If you're going to make empty baseless troll claims to goad debate then at least have the gumption to adhere to your own standard and quote your source.

I made a simple and very easy to understand post. Its common knowledge among theologians and secular academics alike that the Bible has suffered from numerous mistranslations and interpolations. The mere fact numerous different versions exist and translations from numerous different manuscripts attest to that fact.

If you want specific verses to ponder over why not just say that instead of your petulant empty response? Here's one for you to chew over seeing as you're a pedant John 8:1-11. That ENTIRE passage was made up. Its nowhere to be found in any of the ancient codex or early manuscripts. Its a known forgery. But you knew that didn't you.....
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
What are you blabbering on about? I've not read anything on any website. If you're going to make empty baseless troll claims to goad debate then at least have the gumption to adhere to your own standard and quote your source.

I made a simple and very easy to understand post. Its common knowledge among theologians and secular academics alike that the Bible has suffered from numerous mistranslations and interpolations. The mere fact numerous different versions exist and translations from numerous different manuscripts attest to that fact.

If you want specific verses to ponder over why not just say that instead of your petulant empty response? Here's one for you to chew over seeing as you're a pedant John 8:1-11. That ENTIRE passage was made up. Its nowhere to be found in any of the ancient codex or early manuscripts. Its a known forgery. But you knew that didn't you.....

Deception. You say "the text" is "the Bible." And then, this disjointed scribble, which you just read, on a website:

"What I'm talking about are deliberate interpolations or deliberate corruptions of the text"-you

So, "the bible," "the text," was corrupted? What "the original" "the bible" would that be, that was corrupted?


Clueless. You need to fold, as you just read that, on a website, and are just winging it.


"That ENTIRE passage was made up. Its nowhere to be found in any of the ancient codex or early manuscripts."-you

Made up. You read that on a website, just trying to show off.


You fraud-there is no such thing as "the text." You've seen these "early manuscripts," have you?

"that the Bible has suffered from numerous mistranslations and interpolations."-you

How were you able to make that assessment/judgment, without an infallible source authority, by which to compare all these "the bible"'s?

Translated: Here is a error filled "the bible," and I will use it, to determine "numerous mistranslations and interpolations."

=appealing to imperfection, to arrive at perfection=can't be done, fraud.

Take your seat-we've seen this fraud before. You think you are being "original," and "scholarly."
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Origin of the Cross

Evidence is proven or disproved by what the Bible says, not what Josephus says.

Nick,

If you throw Josephus out, you better be prepared to throw much of the New Testament out. He is a very important reference to the very validity of Jesus's existence.

Um... The Talmud does indeed mention, but... We'll.. I'm not so sure that's a good place to go. Anger at Him is very apparent in those writings.

Like as in Mary lied... Jesus was a no good scorcher. On the flip. The denial of His Devine birth and recognition of his miracles does give Him even more validity, and would suggest religious leaders were angry enough to ensure He was crucified.
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Banned
On a different note.... What does it matter.... Stake, Cross, whatever.... His work was "Finished". Um... On the flip, to be naughty, I would like to point out that a cross was reserved for extreme punishment, not a stake.... Saint peters cross is the inverted cross, and has historical references to support that it was a cross. The record of the disciples fates gives the cross more validity.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Put religion to one side for a moment and just consider the sheer weight of secular evidence...

Neither the Hebrew Bible nor the NT are secular with regard to their source material.

The word "jehovah" is not biblical.
 

CherubRam

New member
Addressed and corrected HERE and HERE.

End of thread.
The J W translation is also a mistake. Quote: "...the New World Translation, goes so far as to translate "cross" and "crucify" as "torture stake" and "impale."

It should read "stake," and "staked out." Christ was not impaled.
 

CherubRam

New member
Just to be difficult, I am posting verses right out of the New world translation....

Please read them carefully, but read them knowing that they are directly out of a watch tower bible.

Romans 10:

9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.

11 For the scripture says: “No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.”+

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek.+ There is the same Lord over all, who is rich* toward all those calling on him.

13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah* will be saved.”+

14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?

.......................... According to verse 9 to 11, who is being talked about as to who we call on to be saved?

More specifically, who is verse 13 referring to when it says "name of Jehovah"?

According to 9 a 13 what is the name of Jehovah that I call on to be saved.

Check it out. I promise you, it will be in your New World Translation. Exactly as you see it here.

Our scriptures are copies of the copies. The Catholics removed the name of God from the scriptures. Yahshua directed us to call upon Yahwah. By the way, Jehovah is a corruption of God's personal name. Iahuah = Yahwah in modern English.
 

Danoh

New member
Nick,

If you throw Josephus out, you better be prepared to throw much of the New Testament out. He is a very important reference to the very validity of Jesus's existence.

Um... The Talmud does indeed mention, but... We'll.. I'm not so sure that's a good place to go. Anger at Him is very apparent in those writings.

Like as in Mary lied... Jesus was a no good scorcher. On the flip. The denial of His Devine birth and recognition of his miracles does give Him even more validity, and would suggest religious leaders were angry enough to ensure He was crucified.

Rubbish on your part.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
 
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