oatmeal
Well-known member
I see the textual evidence, I see that it does not fit with the narrative and it does not fit with scripture in general.
It was added by some scribe in some early texts.
Oh, why don't you reply to my questions?
ECT Opened graves
- Thread starter Tambora
- Start date
I see the textual evidence, I see that it does not fit with the narrative and it does not fit with scripture in general.
It was added by some scribe in some early texts.
Oh, why don't you reply to my questions?
musterion
Well-known member
Believe what you like. Consider what that says about God. Or don't.
No point. Both our minds are made up on the matter.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Ok, then
I see it just fine, both in English and Greek.
And it does not say what you are claiming. It just doesn't say that they were given life again and had to remain in the grave ALIVE for three days.
It plainly says that they arose and came out of the grave at the same time - AFTER Christ's resurrection.
Yep, that's what it says, plainly.
Hi again,
The raising of the dead from their graves before Christ returns is contrary to scripture.
Only those who were not rotted away were ever raised from the dead.
The verses in question suggest many saints were raised from the dead, which is contrary to all the promises of God, but it does fit the RCC doctrine of dead saints being worshipped as if they are alive in Heaven.
God must have forgotten David--
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
LA
The raising of the dead from their graves before Christ returns is contrary to scripture.
Only those who were not rotted away were ever raised from the dead.
The verses in question suggest many saints were raised from the dead, which is contrary to all the promises of God, but it does fit the RCC doctrine of dead saints being worshipped as if they are alive in Heaven.
God must have forgotten David--
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
LA
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Lazarus has to have been a mortal resurrection. Otherwise, Jesus Christ would not have been the first fruits of the resurrection to immortality, rather Lazarus, contrary to doctrinal truth. The Lord Jesus, of course, first appeared to the disciples in a room with the door closed, so He could simply appear, as opposed to a normal physical body of material limitations, that would need to come through a door.
As to other matters, there is no agreement as to the type of body of these mentioned, or whether they actually rose at our Lord's death or when our Lord arose, three days later, theologians having various opinions. This is to say you will not get a 100% answer to this, at all. My opinion is that the resurrected were at His death, and that they were like Lazarus, people that would have been known as dead to contemporaries, that they were a special sign to people at that time, like other miracles of our Lord, further evidence of our Lord and gospel truth being of God. This incident, of course, cannot be confused with the first resurrection to immortal bodies, not yet happened, cannot be any general resurrection of all saints, which would seem to imply these resurrections a special case, hence like Lazarus, but, again, just expressing this as an opinion. I could only tell you I'm right and everybody else wrong and on their way to hell, if I became a Christian two months ago and spent more time on TOL and the web, trolling, instead of actually learning God's word.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Extras in zombie movies?
Folks were raised from the dead both before and after Jesus.
A good point I have considered.
I tried to find instances of folks being raised from the dead BEFORE Jesus died.
1 Kings 17:19-22 KJV
(19) And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
(20) And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
(21) And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
(22) And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
2 Kings 4:32-37 KJV
(32) And when Elisha was come into the house, behold, the child was dead, and laid upon his bed.
(33) He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed unto the LORD.
(34) And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and he stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.
(35) Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes.
(36) And he called Gehazi, and said, Call this Shunammite. So he called her. And when she was come in unto him, he said, Take up thy son.
(37) Then she went in, and fell at his feet, and bowed herself to the ground, and took up her son, and went out.
2 Kings 13:20-21 KJV
(20) And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year.
(21) And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
Luke 7:12-15 KJV
(12) Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.
(13) And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not.
(14) And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.
(15) And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.
Luke 8:49-55 KJV
(49) While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master.
(50) But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.
(51) And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden.
(52) And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
(53) And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.
(54) And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.
(55) And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
John 11:43-44 KJV
(43) And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
(44) And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
(19) And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
(20) And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
(21) And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
(22) And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
2 Kings 4:32-37 KJV
(32) And when Elisha was come into the house, behold, the child was dead, and laid upon his bed.
(33) He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed unto the LORD.
(34) And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and he stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.
(35) Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes.
(36) And he called Gehazi, and said, Call this Shunammite. So he called her. And when she was come in unto him, he said, Take up thy son.
(37) Then she went in, and fell at his feet, and bowed herself to the ground, and took up her son, and went out.
2 Kings 13:20-21 KJV
(20) And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year.
(21) And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
Luke 7:12-15 KJV
(12) Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.
(13) And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not.
(14) And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.
(15) And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.
Luke 8:49-55 KJV
(49) While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master.
(50) But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.
(51) And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden.
(52) And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
(53) And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.
(54) And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.
(55) And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
John 11:43-44 KJV
(43) And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
(44) And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
All seem to have been raised back to life within a very short time of their death.
And there were others raised AFTER the death of Jesus.
The saints we are discussing in the OP.
Plus Dorcus being raised by Peter. (Acts 9:37-41)
Plus Eutychus being raised by Paul. (Acts 20:9-12)
Which also seem to be raised within a very short time of their death.
musterion
Well-known member
Don't blaspheme the work of God.
Yes but none of them were rotted.
God must have forgotten Daniel---
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
There is no mention in scripture of these supposedly raised from the dead and appearing to many.
LA
That's what I was getting at.
They all were raised back to mortal life in a very short period of time from their death, before their bodies were all decomposed.
Jedidiah
New member
The Gospel accounts are quite long, and there's a lot of content in each of them, so if there is something "missing" from them (and John 21:25 indicates that there is much "missing"), then it must mean that the "missing" content is in fact unnecessary to understanding the Gospel, even to the highest degree possible.
But it certainly is an interesting thought that there are incorruptible saints among us, who were raised in AD 33 !
But it certainly is an interesting thought that there are incorruptible saints among us, who were raised in AD 33 !
They were.
So now can you figure out who these supposed many saints were, as they would have been living during the time of Christ and died within days of Christs death.
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, (by themselves)
No record exists of them.
Lazarus was well known, why not these many?
It is because it did not happen.
LA
Right Divider
Body part
I couldn't agree more. Most people just completely ignore or twist this verse (and the rest of the passage as well).
Luke gives some great examples too:
Luk 24:31 KJV And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
Luk 24:35-37 KJV And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread. (36) And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. (37) But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Immediately thereafter the Lord Jesus Christ asked for food to demonstrate that this resurrected body that could vanish and appear was still a body that could eat food, etc.
Scripture does not reveal any individual names of those saints.
So I don't either.
If many saints were raised from the dead, who were recently known to have died then the whole of Jerusalem would have known their names and written about them.
No records exist.
LA
Jedidiah
New member
Ah, the argument from silence, beautifully done.
You ignore, of course, Right Divider's contribution, because it explains the silence rather well. Perfectly, actually.
And you never proved that this resurrection was like the others. It may have been rather different. Long dead Prophets may have risen in this one.
You know, it was actually quite different when God Himself rose from the dead.
You ignore, of course, Right Divider's contribution, because it explains the silence rather well. Perfectly, actually.
And you never proved that this resurrection was like the others. It may have been rather different. Long dead Prophets may have risen in this one.
You know, it was actually quite different when God Himself rose from the dead.