ECT Open Theism debate

[glorydaz]

Amen!

Love overcomes hatred and we overcome evil with good.

God is goodness and love, and with his love within our hearts we can overcome anything in this world of sin.

Jesus said love one another as I have loved you, love is the key and I don't mean a sloppy happy clappy love, but love in truth and righteousness through our Lord Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy spirit. To love our enemy isn't all to be huggy cuddly, but to turn the other cheek and show mercy and forgiveness, and if they ever need help and be there for them. And if Christ is in our hearts, he will help us to do as he taught, and he will help us to overcome the world.

He who is within us, is stronger than he who is of the world.

Great tune, but you would fold in the face of real evil. Love your enemy while he rapes your child or beheads your husband. You preach what you do not know, and pretend you are "dying to self"..... as all hypocrites are want to do. You are what Jesus preached against while He walked among us.

Jesus overcame the world. You didn't and can't.

 

[marhig]

Great tune, but you would fold in the face of real evil. Love your enemy while he rapes your child or beheads your husband. You preach what you do not know, and pretend you are "dying to self"..... as all hypocrites are want to do. You are what Jesus preached against while He walked among us.

Jesus overcame the world. You didn't and can't.

Judging again? You don't know me GD. Or what I've been through.

I've always said, that if someone was attacking my family, or anyone in front of me, I would do whatever it takes at that time to defend them, what I wouldn't do, is to go out to purposely to kill someone, God said thou shalt not kill, and I believe, that because i know God and know the truth, that i should do his will.

Also what you you don't see, is what I've already been through in my life, I've been to hell and back, and God has helped me to forgive, I was full of bitterness, hardness and hatred. I held what happened to me for years, I couldn't let it go and it festered in my heart, but God by his love and grace has helped me to overcome and I am free of those chains that satan had me in. And I am at peace, so much so I would now help them.

So yes, I know how to hate, and my flesh would hate to my last breath, but God has changed my heart. I'm not foolish enough to say, oh I wouldn't hate anyone and I wouldn't want to hurt anyone who harmed my family, yes I would, and I would have to pray hard to God for help to take it away from me, because I know that I can't do those things myself, but I also know that through love, faith and repentance God by his grace can help me to overcome the wrong that's in me. If I remain in his goodness and live by his will.

And all of us who truly know God, should be living by his will, if we are doing so, and have true faith, then I believe that he strengthens us to bare what we have to go through and suffer and he helps us to overcome it.

Love overcomes hate, good overcomes evil. And if Christ is in our hearts, we can overcome this world and I know that's true because God through Christ has been helping me to do so. Every day I have a fight on my hands, and I know that God is with me, because I couldn't overcome my flesh without him.

Jesus overcame the world, and if Christ is in our hearts, he will help us to do so too, through him by the power of the Spirit.

Greater is he who is in those who are truly born of God, than he who is in the world.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

That was not meant as an insult; rather as a call out of their reinvented; changed, so called "Bible."

To call you a fool for being so willingly close minded to even bother to look into that much, is to point out to you exactly what you are being.

And only a fool would right off conclude their being called one is an insult and not exactly what they are better off hearing about themselves that they might then reflect on the possible validity of towards changing that about themselves, if such turns out to be the actual case.

You're all about "luv" and seeing it everywhere - so why can't you see it in my honesty with you on this?

Why?

Because even this so called "luv" you hold to is as one-sided as you claim others are being towards you.

You're clueless. Plain and simple.

Accept its possibility, towards then looking into how you might actually "get a clue."

What are you - four years old; that a little constructive criticism is automatically cause for you to wah, wah, wah - "where is the love you said was mine o mine til the end of time..." :chuckle:

Tell ya what - just "luv" us love-less fools into loving you.

"Its the power of love" - Luther Vandross :chuckle:

Whoops, now I've gone all Epoisses on you :rotfl:

But seriously, women, take a chill pill whenever you "don't feel the luv."

Better yet, try believing Rom. 5:6-8 :thumb:

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Great tune, but you would fold in the face of real evil. Love your enemy while he rapes your child or beheads your husband. You preach what you do not know, and pretend you are "dying to self"..... as all hypocrites are want to do. You are what Jesus preached against while He walked among us.

Jesus overcame the world. You didn't and can't.

The answer to the question of why King David could say all that he did concerning the wicked, is that he was not part of the Bride of Christ as some of us are.

Our Lord the King and husband will take care of such matters as the punishment of the wicked.

You do not seem to know of our Lords care.

Psa 91:9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
Psa 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Believers have to wrestle with such verses whether they be true or not.


LA

 

[glorydaz]

Judging again? You don't know me GD. Or what I've been through.

Nor do you know me, but that doesn't stop you from claiming I have a "do nothing gospel".

Also what you you don't see, is what I've already been through in my life, ....

Nor do you know what I have already been through, but that doesn't stop you form imagining all the sin I must be committing.

So yes, I know how to hate, and my flesh would hate to my last breath, but God has changed my heart. I'm not foolish enough to say, oh I wouldn't hate anyone and I wouldn't want to hurt anyone who harmed my family, yes I would, and I would have to pray hard to God for help to take it away from me, because I know that I can't do those things myself, but I also know that through love, faith and repentance God by his grace can help me to overcome the wrong that's in me. If I remain in his goodness and live by his will.

Yes, I see you think you're something special.

And all of us who truly know God, should be living by his will,

All of us who truly know God have complete faith in His ability to perform what He began in us. :chew:

 

[glorydaz]

You do not seem to know of our Lords care.

 

[Danoh]

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

I sincerely doubt the Lord had been referring to being and remaining...as naive as children cannot help being, given their lacking in learning and wisdom.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

Ephesians 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Nevertheless, Romans 5:6-8 towards you, LA - may it be your reality one day (if...it has yet been).

 

[marhig]

Nor do you know me, but that doesn't stop you from claiming I have a "do nothing gospel".




Nor do you know what I have already been through, but that doesn't stop you form imagining all the sin I must be committing.



Yes, I see you think you're something special.



All of us who truly know God have complete faith in His ability to perform what He began in us. :chew:

I've never judged you personally as you have done with me. I don't believe in the doctrine you believe in because it's not the truth. But as for you personally, I don't know you and only God can judge you.

You judge me personally, but that's also between you and God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Forgiveness is offered to those who repent, marhig. Those who repent won't find themselves in Hell.


I will not make any attempt to establish this because I know you would receive it even if I tried but Jesus was teaching people how to live during the soon expected Millennial Kingdom. It wasn't intended to be applied in the manner you are applying it. We are not Jews, marhig. We are not subject to the Law. We have no king or priest. We don't have to tithe or become circumcised. All of which you would do and practice if you consistently applied Jesus' teachings the way you apply the sermon on the mount.


Neither do I!

I'd very much prefer everyone come to Christ. Preaching a softer version of Hell, however, will accomplish the opposite of what you intend.


That same God says that He's going to leave the fate of the wicked in YOUR hands on judgment day.


Which includes practicing justice.


You are not following your own advice.

Clete

Nonsense.

Firstly, it isn't her rule.

Secondly, mercy is the rule.

And how is she not following it exactly?

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[popsthebuilder]

That was not meant as an insult; rather as a call out of their reinvented; changed, so called "Bible."

To call you a fool for being so willingly close minded to even bother to look into that much, is to point out to you exactly what you are being.

And only a fool would right off conclude their being called one is an insult and not exactly what they are better off hearing about themselves that they might then reflect on the possible validity of towards changing that about themselves, if such turns out to be the actual case.

You're all about "luv" and seeing it everywhere - so why can't you see it in my honesty with you on this?

Why?

Because even this so called "luv" you hold to is as one-sided as you claim others are being towards you.

You're clueless. Plain and simple.

Accept its possibility, towards then looking into how you might actually "get a clue."

What are you - four years old; that a little constructive criticism is automatically cause for you to wah, wah, wah - "where is the love you said was mine o mine til the end of time..." :chuckle:

Tell ya what - just "luv" us love-less fools into loving you.

"Its the power of love" - Luther Vandross :chuckle:

Whoops, now I've gone all Epoisses on you :rotfl:

But seriously, women, take a chill pill whenever you "don't feel the luv."

Better yet, try believing Rom. 5:6-8 :thumb:

Admonishing in love is not what you are doing.

Mockery is never really mistaken for love by any, not even one you percieve as a fool, or an actual fool. It is a foolish statement that insists on such though, and since a statement has no power to be foolish of its own nonexistent will; well then where does that leave us?

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[popsthebuilder]

Exactly, people are already being destroyed by fire now and we should have hope that Christ through those born of God can pull them out.

As for Sodom, God listened to Abraham and he was willing to save the whole city of the wicked if he could find only 10 righteous people in it, now there's mercy and he listened to his servant.

I know God isn't soft derf, and I know he won't be mocked. But I don't believe it's right to want to see people suffer like some do. I believe that we are to speak the truth and live by Gods word ourselves, and the word judges the heart and then leave all eternal judgement to God.

And God will have more mercy for those sinning who don't know him, than toward those who know the truth and disobey him.

right on;

amen



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[popsthebuilder]

You're mixing two things. One thing is who does the avenging/judging/execution or whatever. I'm not offering to do it. I don't necessarily want to do it. God seems capable, but He also called on us to avenge murder: "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image."[Gen 9:6 ESV]

If we are not willing to do this, we are then purposefully disobeying God's commands (hear that, [MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION]?. Or I guess you can just say you disregard that scripture and pretend it doesn't exist).

The other is whether we rejoice at God's righteous judgment. If we can't do that, are we really loving God and His will for this earth?

It is not for us to appoint ourselves judge.

The Sword of the Spirit has absolutely nothing to do with a physical sword.

If you do not believe the law of the Spirit to pertain to you then how can you possibly justifiably pretend like the written law of the Jew applies to any whatsoever?

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[popsthebuilder]

If you're talking your copy of the New World Translation put out by the Watch Tower or its corrupt influence on your "understanding" than no, you are neither actually reading "the Bible" nor "whole contextually."

Which makes you an enemy of the following no matter how wonderful you might be as a person.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And not only an enemy of that, but a fool on her way to the wrath also mentioned there, "unless you have believed in vain" that is to say, the false, works based "gospel" the Watch Tower is infamous for, and that you are ever spreading the "mine own righteousness...dung" of all over TOL.

For verse 8's "love" is clearly a reality in contrast to the equal reality that is verse 9's "wrath."

And of those two - it is NOT its "love" that it clearly asserts awaits anyone who would add works for salvation to the above, as some sort of a requirement within it, BUT...its "wrath" that awaits such.

All I can add to that is Rom. 5:6-8 towards you.

It is really easy to pinpoint who is far from safe.

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[glorydaz]

I've never judged you personally as you have done with me. I don't believe in the doctrine you believe in because it's not the truth. But as for you personally, I don't know you and only God can judge you.

You judge me personally, but that's also between you and God.

Shame on you. You most certainly have judged me personally, and every other member of the body of Christ. When you attack the Gospel of Grace, and say it's a "do nothing Gospel", you attack all who believe unto righteousness. You've accused us of sinning, and even claimed we use Grace as as excuse to sin. I guess that just "slipped" your mind.

To say you don't believe in the "doctrine" I believe in is a cop out. Just come right out and admit you don't believe in Paul's Gospel of Grace.

You, and all those like you, live in your little pre-cross world, and are quite content hoping to "endure to the end". That is not the Gospel of Grace, which you besmirch every chance you get. That "Do Nothing Gospel" is a Gift of God...that which you cannot earn with all your pious efforts.

What you DO does not concern me. What you PREACH does. It's not the Gospel that saves.

 

[marhig]

Shame on you. You most certainly have judged me personally, and every other member of the body of Christ. When you attack the Gospel of Grace, and say it's a "do nothing Gospel", you attack all who believe unto righteousness. You've accused us of sinning, and even claimed we use Grace as as excuse to sin. I guess that just "slipped" your mind.

To say you don't believe in the "doctrine" I believe in is a cop out. Just come right out and admit you don't believe in Paul's Gospel of Grace.

You, and all those like you, live in your little pre-cross world, and are quite content hoping to "endure to the end". That is not the Gospel of Grace, which you besmirch every chance you get. That "Do Nothing Gospel" is a Gift of God...that which you cannot earn with all your pious efforts.

What you DO does not concern me. What you PREACH does. It's not the Gospel that saves.

I agree with everything Paul teaches, just not your churches interpretation of it.

 

[popsthebuilder]

No one would rightly enjoy seeing someone be punished for anything unless they deserved it, marhig. And it is perfectly natural for people to enjoy it when the wicked are justly punished. That's the reason movies like "Ransom" and "Die Hard" work and why movies like "Unforgiven" don't. The point, however, is that the guy getting it has to actually be deserving of what he's getting or else anyone's enjoyment of it would turn into something grotesque and ungodly.

God commands us repeatedly, throughout the scriptures to "practice justice". I suggest you snap to it and stop formulating your doctrine based on your emotional state of mind.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Yeah....this isn't the movies pal; and blockbusters such as the ones you mentioned appeal to the lusts and desires of the flesh; not a good example for righteous judgement in my opinion.

When it comes to man judging man, mercy is justice.

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[Lazy afternoon]

Shame on you. You most certainly have judged me personally, and every other member of the body of Christ. When you attack the Gospel of Grace, and say it's a "do nothing Gospel", you attack all who believe unto righteousness. You've accused us of sinning, and even claimed we use Grace as as excuse to sin. I guess that just "slipped" your mind.

To say you don't believe in the "doctrine" I believe in is a cop out. Just come right out and admit you don't believe in Paul's Gospel of Grace.

You, and all those like you, live in your little pre-cross world, and are quite content hoping to "endure to the end". That is not the Gospel of Grace, which you besmirch every chance you get. That "Do Nothing Gospel" is a Gift of God...that which you cannot earn with all your pious efforts.

What you DO does not concern me. What you PREACH does. It's not the Gospel that saves.

Your "gospel of grace" is that you are forgiven all past present and future sin regardless of how many and how much sin you continue to commit.

LA

 

[patrick jane]

​

(And I will confess that love of bloodshed is one of my darkest weaknesses)...


I am willing to kill a man that would strike down a Pacifist like @meshak or anyone who would harm the weak... but God forbid I feed my soul’s bloodlust!



The blood stained hands that remember every person they have killed and weep over it... those are men of God!

The bloodstained hands that have feet that rush to take more blood... THE Devil owns and will take them!





I served my country and was willing to kill!

Pure Love

 

[glorydaz]

Your "gospel of grace" is that you are forgiven all past present and future sin regardless of how many and how much sin you continue to commit.

LA

It's not exactly MY Gospel of Grace. It's the Gospel of the Grace of God which Paul received of the Lord Jesus Christ. It's God's GIFT to those who believe. (Not those who "say" they believe, but those who are fully persuaded and believe in their HEART.)

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.​

And, yes, ALL SINS are forgiven when we believe the Gospel. You should pray you get the same deal, otherwise, you'll die in your sins, and face God's wrath.

What you refuse to accept is that believers have been delivered from the Law...freed from the law of sin and death. You cannot charge believers with sin...try as you may. Now, THAT is Good News.

 

[glorydaz]

Pure Love

Pure Bull is more like it. :chuckle: