On Rape (the original statement)

[ok doser]

Known to be risky, by whom?

you've come late to this thread and probably missed my explanation of why I am interested in this

briefly - i find myself a student at a liberal college at the moment that is currently in the throes of a rape awareness campaign - flyers, posters, handouts, symposia, discussion groups - all focused on how to avoid rape - lots of good advice

but no acknowledgment that if a woman chooses to ignore that advice and put herself at risk, she should bear some responsibility for the inevitable

the rest of your post has been addressed ad nauseum

 

[Quetzal]

you've come late to this thread and probably missed my explanation of why I am interested in this

briefly - i find myself a student at a liberal college at the moment that is currently in the throes of a rape awareness campaign - flyers, posters, handouts, symposia, discussion groups - all focused on how to avoid rape - lots of good advice

but no acknowledgment that if a woman chooses to ignore that advice and put herself at risk, she should bear some responsibility for the inevitable

the rest of your post has been addressed ad nauseum

Yeah, shame on the college for not victim blaming when the assailant is clearly in the wrong.

 

[ok doser]

So... why is this still here? Doser has retreated like a coward ....

:freak:


oh, i get it

you were just trolling kidding

good one! :thumb:

 

[ok doser]

A bunch of guys swimming in the nude and one gets raped. Is he asking for it?

if he's drunk and has willingly taken drugs and knows that he's swimming with the gay men's swim team?

yeah - he was asking for it

 

[bybee]

if he's drunk and has willingly taken drugs and knows that he's swimming with the gay men's swim team?

yeah - he was asking for it

You take a simple scenario and turn it into something vulgar and crass.
Is that the only scenario you can imagine?

 

[Quetzal]

You take a simple scenario and turn it into something vulgar and crass.
Is that the only scenario you can imagine?

Notice how extreme and specific he has to make his examples to give himself any credibility? It's a joke, really.

 

[bybee]

then you're not paying attention :idunno:



tam - i'm not trying to excuse anything - i've made that point clearly throughout the thread

especially the responsibility that the woman bears if she acts in a manner that she knows puts her at risk

And I am not absolving an adult for engaging in behavior which might put him/her at risk. We suffer our consequences for good or ill.
Consequences might mean victimization by an opportunist criminal.
Consequences might entail a decent person does the right thing and tries to help you.
Have you not heard of St. Martin? The Good Samaritan?
They did not ask if the victims they encountered had been stupid or unwise. They simply offered assistance.

 

[annabenedetti]

:freak:


oh, i get it

you were just trolling kidding

good one! :thumb:

No, he's not trolling. If you want to whine about trolling, you should go back to your own thread and do it from there. :thumb:

 

[annabenedetti]

Notice how extreme and specific he has to make his examples to give himself any credibility? It's a joke, really.

It's been that way throughout the thread, and by more than one person. The most memorable one was the 'naked woman walking through a men's prison' scenario.

 

[ok doser]

She was drunk at a frat party...therefore she bears responsibility for being raped
She was at a frat party...therefore she bears responsibility for being raped
She was dressed provacatively...therefore
She was wearing a dress...therefore

see scenario #6: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4520791&postcount=40


and to make a distinction WoO

not "she bears responsibility for being raped"

rather "she bears responsibility for acting against good advice and putting herself in a risky situation"

 

[annabenedetti]

no, anna, i've been very clear about this

Yes you have:

rape is a choice that women make

i've been clear about this too, anna

not all of them, only the ones who acted cowardly

Name them.

Oh wait, you won't. Because that would personalize the victims of your bogus assertion and that would be uncomfortable for you.

As I recall, you weren't sure if the young woman in the wheelchair was a coward or not - did you decide yet?

You weasel.

 

[PureX]

It's been that way throughout the thread, and by more than one person. The most memorable one was the 'naked woman walking through a men's prison' scenario.

What they all have in common is the idea that men are naturally inclined to rape, and that should be expected and understood by women. And because this is just how men are, it then becomes the woman's responsibility not to provoke or tempt the men in any way. And if they do provoke or tempt them, then they, in part, deserve whatever happens to them.

 

[Quetzal]

What they all have in common is the idea that men are naturally inclined to rape, and that should be expected and understood by women. And because this is just how men are, it becomes the woman's responsibility not to provoke them in any way. And if they do provoke them, then they in part deserve whatever happens to them.

Well said.

 

[ok doser]

... making the girl feel worse.

woman, kmo, we're talking about adults here

why shouldn't an adult, of any gender, feel bad about making foolish choices that lead to harm?

consider scenario #6: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4520791&postcount=40

should Frank have been more sympathetic to Joe?

 

[annabenedetti]

woman, kmo, we're talking about adults here

why shouldn't an adult, of any gender, feel bad about making foolish choices that lead to harm?

consider scenario #6: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4520791&postcount=40

should Frank have been more sympathetic to Joe?

Oh look, a Hardy Boys scenario! :chuckle:

Anything - anything to divert attention from his original indefensible statement.

 

[ok doser]

Yes, Joe was responsible for going into an off-limits area, one which he was told could be dangerous. He made a bad decision and paid for it.

Yes, if a girl goes to a party with a bunch of strangers, gets drunk, and passes out then she's put herself in a dangerous situation. She may end up paying a dear price for it. Hopefully she learns from it and others can as well.

I have no problem saying that. What I don't agree would would be statements like these:
Her rape was inevitable
Her rape was her own fault
She doesn't deserve sympathy

if Joe - in the example of the Seaman - had made a habit of going into off-limits areas when on shore leave, would you have any problem with characterizing his beating and demotion with the following:

the beating he took and his demotion was inevitable
the beating he took and his demotion was his own fault
the beating he took and his demotion don't deserve sympathy

 

[annabenedetti]

What they all have in common is the idea that men are naturally inclined to rape, and that should be expected and understood by women. And because this is just how men are, it then becomes the woman's responsibility not to provoke or tempt the men in any way. And if they do provoke or tempt them, then they, in part, deserve whatever happens to them.

If they really do think that, then they're doubly wrong.

 

[annabenedetti]

if Joe - in the example of the Seaman - had made a habit of going into off-limits areas when on shore leave, would you have any problem with characterizing his beating and demotion with the following:

the beating he took and his demotion was inevitable
the beating he took and his demotion was his own fault
the beating he took and his demotion don't deserve sympathy

But what he really means is:

rape is a choice that women make

 

[ok doser]

Are you saying that rape is an effective learning tool?

:shut:

Spoiler

:shut:

 

[ok doser]

Yeah, shame on the college for not victim blaming when the assailant is clearly in the wrong.

what's wrong with victim blaming if the victim's to blame?

feel free to address scenario #6: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4520791&postcount=40

You take a simple scenario and turn it into something vulgar and crass.
Is that the only scenario you can imagine?

bybee - I added those qualifiers to show that yes, he's at fault if he chooses to engage in behavior that he knows is risky

Notice how extreme and specific he has to make his examples to give himself any credibility? It's a joke, really.

I've tried broad strokes Q

like "a woman should bear some responsibility for the consequences of her poor choices"

for many here, this is a concept they can't understand

so I give specific and extreme examples

if the specific and extreme examples bother you, feel free to address the generality:

Should a woman should bear some responsibility for the consequences of her poor choices?

Yes you have:
Name them.

Oh wait, you won't. Because that would personalize the victims of your bogus assertion and that would be uncomfortable for you.

As I recall, you weren't sure if the young woman in the wheelchair was a coward or not - did you decide yet?

You weasel.

go whine about it over at the On Cowards and Heroes thread :idunno: