On Rape (the original statement)

[glorydaz]

Allowing consequences isn't the same as a punishment for one's actions, which is what I think that verse is about. Rape is not a punishment and is not deserved.

Really? I believe it is. And it's one of the most effective learning tools there is.

I have never been raped.
Came close once.
It would have destroyed me.
What you have just said is one of the most despicable things I've ever hear another woman say.

Allowing consequences IS the same as punishment for one's actions. And that statement is one of the most despicable things Bybee has ever heard another woman say? REALLY? God forbid I should ever have made it. :shocked:


When I suffer the natural consequences of stealing from a store by being punished for it.....that isn't an effective learning tool? Tell me there isn't a lack of plain old common sense being manifested in this thread. :chuckle:

 

[annabenedetti]

Good grief, Bybee. What nonsense.

First, it would not have "destroyed" you. That is an over reaction.

You don't know that. You don't have the right to tell another woman how she should or would or did react to, grieve over, or heal from a rape.

What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. Now, if you want to take everything someone says so personally, I can't see much point in even trying to post on threads like this.

Thank God I am not so easily offended....is all I can say about that comment of yours. :nono:

Would you clarify for me? I know you've got only the first part of kmo's post highlighted, but in context it still appears that you're saying that rape would be an effective learning tool.

Allowing consequences isn't the same as a punishment for one's actions, which is what I think that verse is about. Rape is not a punishment and is not deserved.

Really? I believe it is. And it's one of the most effective learning tools there is.

 

[glorydaz]

It is outrageous arrogance on your part to tell me how I am allowed to react.
I do take the subject of rape very personally.
In many ways I am a tough old bird!
In many ways my heart is easily grieved.

Yes I know....I'm despicable and outrageously arrogant. Thank you very much, Bybee, for letting me see so clearly what your personal feelings are. I also know why you have them.

 

[kmoney]

Really? I believe it is. And it's one of the most effective learning tools there is.

No. Punishment is active. Allowing consequences is passive. Rape is not a punishment and not deserved.

 

[glorydaz]

You don't know that. You don't have the right to tell another woman how she should or would react to, grieve over, or heal from a rape.

Actually, Anna, I have as much right to say what I think as you do by telling me what you think about what I say. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Would you clarify for me? I know you've got only the first part of kmo's post highlighted, but in context it still appears that you're saying that rape would be an effective learning tool.

Of course, because you gals just love to jump to conclusions.

 

[glorydaz]

No. Punishment is active. Allowing consequences is passive. Rape is not a punishment and not deserved.

No. Consequences are active....very active as a matter of fact.

The consequences for ones actions come in many forms. You folk just don't want to admit it.

 

[annabenedetti]

Actually, Anna, I have as much right to say what I think as you do by telling me what you think about what I say. Funny how that works, isn't it?

You can say it, sure. But it doesn't mean you have the right to decide for a victim how that victim should react to, grieve over, or heal from a rape. Like grief, there's no one right way to deal with trauma, and no one has the right to tell a victim how to deal with it. Only the victim has that right for herself.

Of course, because you gals just love to jump to conclusions.

I asked you for clarification, and this is your answer?

I'll try again.

Are you saying that rape is an effective learning tool?

 

[kmoney]

Allowing consequences IS the same as punishment for one's actions. And that statement is one of the most despicable things Bybee has ever heard another woman say? REALLY? God forbid I should ever have made it. :shocked:


When I suffer the natural consequences of stealing from a store by being punished for it.....that isn't an effective learning tool? Tell me there isn't a lack of plain old common sense being manifested in this thread. :chuckle:

Punishment for stealing being a natural consequence aside, it isn't a valid comparison with rape.

 

[kmoney]

No. Consequences are active....very active as a matter of fact.

The consequences for ones actions come in many forms. You folk just don't want to admit it.

It matters who is performing the consequences. The rapist is performing the rape, for a reason that has nothing to do with punishment. God would be allowing it by not intervening. I hope you don't think that God doesn't intervene because he looks at the rape as a punishment for the girls actions.

 

[glorydaz]

It matters who is performing the consequences. The rapist is performing the rape, for a reason that has nothing to do with punishment. God would be allowing it by not intervening. I hope you don't think that God doesn't intervene because he looks at the rape as a punishment for the girls actions.

Hope what you like. I know for a fact that God does not intervene on countless occasions because He is allowing us to reap what we have sown. Rape is no different than many of the other painful things God allows us to endure as we have many lessons to learn. One of those lessons must certainly be NOT TO entice men to sin by our behavior. You may not like it. You may like to claim that rape is somehow a special circumstance for which no woman can ever be held responsible for her own actions. I don't. I view it like any other mistake in judgment that we should and do learn to avoid.

 

[glorydaz]

Punishment for stealing being a natural consequence aside, it isn't a valid comparison with rape.

I know....brush all those darn pesky comparisons aside. :chuckle:

 

[intojoy]

Good grief, Bybee. What nonsense.



First, it would not have "destroyed" you. That is an over reaction.



What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. Now, if you want to take everything someone says so personally, I can't see much point in even trying to post on threads like this.



Thank God I am not so easily offended....is all I can say about that comment of yours. :nono:

Tell that to Ariel Castro's victims

 

[glorydaz]

You can say it, sure. But it doesn't mean you have the right to decide for a victim how that victim should react to, grieve over, or heal from a rape. Like grief, there's no one right way to deal with trauma, and no one has the right to tell a victim how to deal with it. Only the victim has that right for herself.

I asked you for clarification, and this is your answer?

I'll try again.

Are you saying that rape is an effective learning tool?

I'm having a hard time even wanting to talk to you, Anna. Like all libs it's nearly impossible to reason with you. And, from what I'm seeing, some of you gals are simply beside yourselves.

I said being raped wouldn't destroy a person. A person can only be "destroyed" by something like rape if they allow themselves to wallow in self pity. I would say the same thing to my daughter or my best friend. And don't you dare tell me that kind of talk would "destroy" someone because I've seen that same straight talk help others in my life. Now, I don't give a rip if you like that or not.

I'm saying that every event in life is an effective learning tool and I don't give a rip if you like that or not, either.

I hope that is clear enough.

 

[glorydaz]

Tell that to Ariel Castro's victims

Zip it Into Self....you're rambling again.

 

[intojoy]

Zip it Into Self....you're rambling again.

View attachment 20770

 

[annabenedetti]

I'm having a hard time even wanting to talk to you, Anna. Like all libs it's nearly impossible to reason with you. And, from what I'm seeing, some of you gals are simply beside yourselves.

I said being raped wouldn't destroy a person. A person can only be "destroyed" by something like rape if they allow themselves to wallow in self pity. I would say the same thing to my daughter or my best friend. And don't you dare tell me that kind of talk would "destroy" someone because I've seen that same straight talk help others in my life. Now, I don't give a rip if you like that or not.

I'm saying that every event in life is an effective learning tool and I don't give a rip if you like that or not, either.

I hope that is clear enough.

I asked a civil and simple question, because I wanted to make sure I was understanding what you'd said, and you could have given a civil and simple answer.

By all means, don't talk to me if you don't "give a rip." No problem.

I do think it's kind of funny that you made sure to tell me you have a right to say what you think... right before you told me "don't you dare tell me..." :chuckle:

(In actuality, I was saying you don't have the right to tell a rape victim how she should deal with her rape.)

But thanks for the indirect acknowledgement that you see rape as an effective learning tool.

I have to agree with bybee. It's an appalling attitude to have, and especially coming from another woman.

 

[glorydaz]

I asked a civil and simple question, because I wanted to make sure I was understanding what you'd said, and you could have given a civil and simple answer.

By all means, don't talk to me if you don't "give a rip." No problem.

I also think it's kind of funny that you made sure you have a right to say what you think...right before you told me "don't you dare tell me..." :chuckle:

But thanks for the indirect acknowledgement that you see rape as an effective learning tool. I have to agree with bybee. It's an appalling attitude to have, and especially coming from another woman.

That's called "tit for tat", Anna. And I think your attitude is an appalling attitude for an adult to have.

 

[annabenedetti]

That's called "tit for tat", Anna. And I think your attitude is an appalling attitude for an adult to have.

"tit for tat" is a child's game, glorydaz.

 

[kmoney]

I know....brush all those darn pesky comparisons aside. :chuckle:

I don't mind comparisons. I don't think that one is valid though.
In one case you have a punishment for a crime that is written into the legal code. The punishment directly flows from the crime.
In the other you have a violent crime being perpetrated against someone, something that doesn't directly flow and isn't a natural consequence to the victim's actions.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't mind comparisons. I don't think that one is valid though.
In one case you have a punishment for a crime that is written into the legal code. The punishment directly flows from the crime.
In the other you have a violent crime being perpetrated against someone, something that doesn't directly flow and isn't a natural consequence to the victim's actions.

Sometimes it is. Especially when you're dealing with the natural man. What exactly is one to expect from the ungodly?