Derf
Well-known member
That’s the spirit! Let’s make sure he gets more than a foot in the door before we slam his personal beliefs.
My name is Park, and I am a Christian looking for advice
- Thread starter Park
- Start date
What's complicated about it?
Paul is explaining that God had cut off Israel and how He was justified in doing so and made reference to Old Testament passages to make his case.
Paul DID NOT begin the chapter by talking about Israel being cut off then abruptly change the subject to predestination and then just as abruptly change the subject back to the cutting off of Israel. It's all entirely about the nation of Israel being cut off because of unbelief (i.e. as a group not individuals).
Do you do anything here other than whine? I wasn't slamming anything Mrs. Thin Skin!
I simply stated facts. What I said is exactly correct. His take on Romans 9 is entirely wrong. The chapter doesn't have anything to do with Calvinist style predestination or as the opening post puts it, "the absolute sovereignty of God in the salvation of His people and the reprobation of those who are not". Neither does any other chapter of the bible have anything to do with such a doctrine either, by the way, but most especially Romans 9.
The OP started out too complex
Wow! I had no idea that you had asked this question! Holy smokes, I missed it by more than a year! Yikes!
Okay, the simple version...
Romans 9 starts off talking about Israel and how God has the right to cut them off. Paul then talks about the Potter and the Clay story so as to give Old Testament support for the contention that a nation which has been promised a kingdom might not get if they do evil in God's sight. Paul then continues on to explain that Israel has indeed been cut off and the Gentiles grafted in.
In short, Romans 9 is all about the principle taught in Jeremiah 18 being applied to the nation of Israel. Jeremiah 18 is the general principle, Romans 9 is the practical application thereof.
Therefore, Romans 9 is not about predestination, its about God changing His mind.
Clete
P.S. I don't know if you're still around to see this post but if you are, then when you ask me a question, be sure to quote the post you're responding too so that I get a notification that you've posted it.
Hasn't been that long, Clete... Lol
Do you think God deliberately made hundreds of millions of sinners incapable of turning to Him for salvation so He could burn them in hell in wrath forever?
Derf
Well-known member
Especially since he hasn't been on the site since he started this thread in May.
He wouldn't answer in any case. There isn't 1 Calvinist in 100 that has the courage of his convictions.
Derf
Well-known member
Perhaps. Calvinism needs a good pep squad to keep going.
Right Divider
Body part
Or perhaps they need to cease and desist.
You mean "echo chamber"?
Derf
Well-known member
That would require free will, and they only recognize non-Calvinists as being able to exercise free will.