jzeidler
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Wait really that's his approach??? Muhammad did all those things in his life and commanded his followers to do the same.
Muslim here. Ask me a question..
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Wait really that's his approach??? Muhammad did all those things in his life and commanded his followers to do the same.
Greg Jennings
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The same way bible believers deal with God telling the Israelites to slaughter every man, woman, and child in the cities of the Promised Land. The Surah and bible verse are both situational, and don't apply to anybody not being directly spoken to
Greg Jennings
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It means listening to both sides and making a decision based on all of the available evidence. Not surprisingly, the answer is always somewhere in the middle
I don't for certain. But you didn't pay attention very closely if you did study the Quran
Greg Jennings
New member
Yes, he commanded the people with him at that point in time to kill certain people in order to take territory.
God commanded the Israelites to kill certain people in order to take territory for the Jews
There is literally no difference
Apple7
New member
The authors of the Koran believe that Jesus is God...
فصل لربك وانحر
Fasalli lirabbika wainhar
108.2 So you pray to your Lord and Sacrifice.
If Muslims believed that Jesus is God they would be Christians.
That is patently not the case.
Who does the Quran define as "lord"?
1. In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
6. Guide us to the Straight Way
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).
(Surah 1.1-7 The Noble Quran)
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
6. Guide us to the Straight Way
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).
(Surah 1.1-7 The Noble Quran)
This is the first thing in the Quran, i.e. chapter 1, verses 1-7.
brewmama
New member
How do you explain that the so called peaceful verses in the Quran are in the earlier (Meccan) chapters which are abrogated by the later violent ones? As an expert, you do realize that the later writings have priority over the earlier ones, right?
And what about the Hadiths and their importance in interpreting the Quran? What is your expert opinion about that?
Sunni theologian al-Qaradawi, who justifies terror attacks against Western targets by noting that there is no such thing as a civilian population in a time of war:
"It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al—Harb [ie. non-Muslim people who resist Islamic conquest] is not protected... In modern war, all of society, with all its classes and ethnic groups, is mobilized to participate in the war, to aid its continuation, and to provide it with the material and human fuel required for it to assure the victory of the state fighting its enemies. Every citizen in society must take upon himself a role in the effort to provide for the battle. The entire domestic front, including professionals, laborers, and industrialists, stands behind the fighting army, even if it does not bear arms."
One of Islam's most revered modern scholars, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, openly sanctions offensive Jihad: "In the Jihad which you are seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other [countries] in order to spread the word of Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way." Elsewhere, he notes: "Islam has the right to take the initiative…this is God’s religion and it is for the whole world. It has the right to destroy all obstacles in the form of institutions and traditions … it attacks institutions and traditions to release human beings from their poisonous influences, which distort human nature and curtail human freedom. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the defense of the 'homeland of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life."
The Dictionary of Islam defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims…[Quoting from the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this effect."
But of course, to you this is meaningless and nothing to do with "real Islam." Because your friends said so.
brewmama
New member
Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.
Greg Jennings
New member
That's just not true. The entire Quran is of the same priority. Mohammed commanding his followers that were at his side one day to kill people does not take priority over Surahs talking about how Muslims should peacefully treat others in general. You're taking a historical event that happened briefly and trying to apply it to the entire history of the religion.
I personally think that every person who reads the Quran (any religious text, for that matter) shouldn't rely on somebody else to tell them what a certain passage means. I think that Muslims should read and interpret for themselves before blindly accepting what those in religious office tell them.
You can find outliers for anything, so why do you think it's surprising that a handful of Muslim theologians are all about holy war? It is not a majority view in the educated Muslim community. It's a marginalized one. Unfortunately, some of these crazier Muslim religious leaders make for good tv, and they are much more entertaining to bring on a show than a Muslim theologian who'll nod in agreement with everything being said. Sean Hannity used to bring on a particularly radical British one. They would yell and scream about evil and jihad and God and so on
Greg Jennings
New member
Not really, no. But keep on believing that. It's obvious you REALLY want to
brewmama
New member
Then why did the Jews stop their killing once Israel was established and Muslims have never stopped?
Greg Jennings
New member
You just can't be this dull. Is the Bible useless because some of it doesn't apply to today? I don't think that's your opinion, is it?
Then why would you think that because some of the Quran doesn't apply today, that it's all useless?
That thing on your shoulders ain't an ornament bud. Think
Side question: are you aware that there's a huge difference between 666 and 6666? Or do you see the devil in the number 2/3?
Greg Jennings
New member
They didn't. David fought war after war, as did his line. Have you read the Bible?
Apple7
New member
Same holds true for Jews.
Apple7
New member
Which 'lord' is the question at hand...
Knowing that the god ‘allah’ is ‘rabbi alAAalameena’ (i.e. lord of the jinn – which are demons) as declared in the opening chapter of the Koran, as thus…
الحمد لله رب العلمين
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena
1.2 The praise (be) to ‘allah’, the lord of the jinn, and of mankind.
And….knowing that the lord of the demons is Satan….the Koranic god ‘allah’ is also proclaimed to be an idol, as thus…
قل أئنكم لتكفرون بالذي خلق الأرض في يومين وتجعلون له أندادا ذلك رب العلمين
Qul a-innakum latakfuroona biallathee khalaqa al-arda fee yawmayni watajAAaloona lahu andadan thalika rabbu alAAalameena
41.9 Say: "Truly you denied with whom he created the earth in two days, and you truly set up his idols, this, the Lord of the jinn, and of mankind?
Clearly, the muslim book of faith is declaring that if you worship the ‘allah’ of the Koran then you are actually worshipping an idol of the devil.
As already mentioned, the Lord spoken of in sura 108 is the Biblical Jesus Christ.
Greg Jennings
New member
Quit lying.
Surah 41:9 actually says:
"Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds.""
http://quran.com/41/9-12
Different source, same result:
"Say: ‘Do you really disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two days? And do you set up equals to Him?’ That is the Lord of the worlds."
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=41
brewmama
New member
Are you unable to recognize the difference in defending from aggression and conquering the world?
You didn't answer the question. Why is Jewish conquest and killing many thousands of years ago whereas Islam has never stopped?