Modern Day Pharisaism

[Cruciform]

And I have more than enough of your ignorant assertions.

If I were ignorant of our subject, you would have had no trouble providing actual proof against my posted statements, but of course you have yet to come up with even a shred of genuine disproof of the Catholic faith, though I've given you multiple opportunities to make your case. Thus, my earlier statements stand exactly as posted.

 

[chair]

Then why is it that what was said by the Pharisees is in the Mishna?

1. I do not know what you are referring to
2. The Mishna is a compilation of the Oral Law. Compiled long after the time of Jesus. It contains some earlier sayings of Rabbis as well.
3. You can't change facts. The Mishna did not exist at the time of Jesus.

 

[radind]

If I were ignorant of our subject, you would have had no trouble providing actual proof against my posted statements, but of course you have yet to come up with even a shred of genuine disproof of the Catholic faith, though I've given you multiple opportunities to make your case. Thus, my earlier statements stand exactly as posted.

With your attitude, I see no purpose in reading any more of your insults.
Goodbye.

 

[Elia]

What it comes down to is what are you trusting in? Are you trusting in what you are and in what you have become, or are you trusting in what Christ has done to save you?

Bs"d

I put my faith and thrust in the one and only true God Y-H-W-H, who is one.

And Y-H-W-H demands from us that we observe His laws.

I dont' put my faith in a carpenter who claimed to be the messiah, but who failed to fulfil the messianic prophecies.

That carpenter by the way, said that the law must be observed until the end of days:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"
Matthew 5

And I definitely don't put my faith in Paul, who is a self-admitted liar, who discards the law, and to who's writings a person can't find head nor tail.


If you want to know what happens when we don't observe God's laws, check this out:

https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/holocausteng


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[Elia]

Wake up.

Faith counts for righteousness, NOT works, Romans 4:1-4.

Bs"d

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

James 2

Don't be a lawless pagan, observe the law of God!


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[Cruciform]

With your attitude, I see no purpose in reading any more of your insults.
Goodbye.

With your attitude---a disingenuous form of ostrich theology---I see no purpose is humoring any more of your uninformed sectarian opinions. Take care.

 

[Elia]

A Pharisee is one that is trying to be justified by the works of the law (what they do).

Paul makes it clear they we are justified by faith in Christ apart from the works of the law, Romans 4:5.

Bs"d

Who is Paul that we should take anything he says seriously??



"But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."

Ecc 12:12-14, New American Standard Bible

 

[Elia]

The Pope

Bs"d

Observance of Sunday rest, trinity, christmass, and other paganism.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[Elia]

How do you obey Moses when he commands an animal sacrifice and going to the High Priest?

Christians obey Moses.

We have a tent/temple, it is our body.

Bs"d

So that means you don't have a tent/Temple.

Of course you can call a duck an elephant, but that is the same idiocy as saying that a body is a tent.

We have a High Priest, Jesus Christ.

So that means you don't have a high priest. A carpenter dead for 2000 years who wasn't even a descendant of Aharon doesn't count of course.

We have a blood offering, from the Lamb of God.

Calling a human a "lamb" is the same nonsense as calling a body a tent.

Human sacrifices are absolutely forbidden in the Torah.

So what you have is nothing.

Christians a lawless idol worshipping pagans.



"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[Elia]

No Jew who rejects Jesus obeys Moses.

Bs"d

You mean that Moses says that we have to accept your messiah???


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[Elia]

According to the Jewish writings after Malachi the Pharisees had no knowledge of God,

Bs"d

The Jews are the only ones who have a knowledge of God.

The Jews are the only ones who worship the one and only true God Y-H-W-H who is one.

Christianity worships a dead carpenter.


"Thus says Y-H-W-H: ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”
Zech 8:23

 

[Elia]

GT,

It is you that do not repent. By denying that your flesh is imperfect, you deny your need for Jesus.

By demanding that Salvation comes from obedience, you deny the power of faith.

Bs"d

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

James 2


"But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."

Ecc 12:12-14, New American Standard Bible

 

[Elia]

Christ and Paul are one, Paul preached that Christ has fulfilled the law....therefore for anybody who trusts in Christ, the law has been fulfilled....the law is the sinner must die, Christ was no sinner but He died on behalf of us who are sinners.

After the law has killed us what more can it do? we are FREE

Bs"d

You replace God's laws with paganism. You are a lawless pagan.

"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9

 

[intojoy]

1. I do not know what you are referring to
2. The Mishna is a compilation of the Oral Law. Compiled long after the time of Jesus. It contains some earlier sayings of Rabbis as well.
3. You can't change facts. The Mishna did not exist at the time of Jesus.

Chair, chair chair now.
After the Babylonian captivity Jewish idolatry ceased to be a problem.

Because the Rabbis knew that the reason for the captivity was because of Israel's failure to keep the Law they decided to build a set of rules that would serve as a fence around the 613 laws of Moses.

This may have been a practical idea but over time these extra levitical laws numbered into the thousands. Israel would need to break this set of laws before getting to the law of Moses and thus prevent another judgement of captivity. Unfortunately thru the centuries the Rabbis placed more and more emphasis on these extra rules and began to teach that they were equal to and more important that the Law itself, the Mishnaic law became equal to the scriptures.

This was the mindset of first century Pharisaic Judaism. Yeshua intentionally goes out of His way to break Mishnaic law to get a rise out of the Jewish leaders. The teaching of the house built upon the sand reflects Pharisaic Judaism. The teachings of the Messiah are the house built upon the Rock.

Every time you see the words "the tradition of the elders" in the Berit Haddassah it is referring to this extra set of rules that formed the fence around the law of Moses.

Here's an example of what I mean.

During the conquest of the Canaanite people's Moses wrote that one could not boil a calf in its mother's milk. Why? Because this is what the idolatrous Canaanites did as part of their religious worship. Now, the rabbis thought what if one cooked a calf and added some form of milk or cheese to it, how could you be sure that the meat you are eating and cheese you are eating are not from the calf's mother? Furthermore what if the dish you ate your meat on is used to eat cheese, how could you be sure that the cheese didn't come from the calf's mother? Thus the separate plates for meat and dairy. Absurd.

Because as I said, Jewish idolatry ceased to be a problem, the prohibition to this boiling of meat in milk was a non issue after the captivity.

Selah my friends


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[Elia]

Bs"d

Christians fall into a state of blind panic when they hear the words "law of God".

Contrast this with the Jewish attitude about God's laws:


Do not hide Your commandments from me.
My soul breaks with longing
For Your judgments at all times.
Psalm 119:20


Teach me, O Y-H-W-H, the way of Your statutes,
And I shall keep it to the end.
Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law;
Indeed, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Make me walk in the path of Your commandments,
For I delight in it.
Psalm 119:33-35

For I have hoped in Your ordinances.
So shall I keep Your law continually,
Forever and ever.
And I will walk at liberty,
For I seek Your precepts.
I will speak of Your testimonies also before kings,
And will not be ashamed.
And I will delight myself in Your commandments,
Which I love.
My hands also I will lift up to Your commandments,
Which I love,
And I will meditate on Your statutes.
Psalm 119:43-48



Teach me Your statutes.
The proud have forged a lie against me,
But I will keep Your precepts with my whole heart.
Their heart is as fat as grease,
But I delight in Your law.
It is good for me that I have been afflicted,
That I may learn Your statutes.
The law of Your mouth is better to me
Than thousands of coins of gold and silver.
Psalm 119:68-72


I know, O Y-H-W-H, that Your judgments are right,
And that in faithfulness You have afflicted me.
76 Let, I pray, Your merciful kindness be for my comfort,
According to Your word to Your servant.
77 Let Your tender mercies come to me, that I may live;
For Your law is my delight.
Psalm 119:75-77


Oh, how I love Your law!
It is my meditation all the day.
98 You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies;
For they are ever with me.
99 I have more understanding than all my teachers,
For Your testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the ancients,
Because I keep Your precepts.
101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way,
That I may keep Your word.
102 I have not departed from Your judgments,
For You Yourself have taught me.
103 How sweet are Your words to my taste,
Sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104 Through Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way.
Psalm 119:97-104


Revive me, O Y-H-W-H, according to Your word.
Accept, I pray, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O Lord,
And teach me Your judgments.
My life is continually in my hand,
Yet I do not forget Your law.
The wicked have laid a snare for me,
Yet I have not strayed from Your precepts.
Your testimonies I have taken as a heritage forever,
For they are the rejoicing of my heart.
I have inclined my heart to perform Your statutes
Forever, to the very end.
I hate the double-minded, but I love Your law.
You are my hiding place and my shield;
I hope in Your word.
Depart from me, you evildoers,
For I will keep the commandments of my God!
Uphold me according to Your word, that I may live;
And do not let me be ashamed of my hope.
Hold me up, and I shall be safe,
And I shall observe Your statutes continually.
You reject all those who stray from Your statutes,
For their deceit is falsehood.
Psalm 119:107-118


For they (the Christians) have regarded Your law as void.
Therefore I love Your commandments
More than gold, yes, than fine gold!
Therefore all Your precepts concerning all things
I consider to be right;
I hate every false way.
Psalm 119:126-128


I opened my mouth and panted,
For I longed for Your commandments.
Psalm 119:31


Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness,
And Your law is truth.
143 Trouble and anguish have overtaken me,
Yet Your commandments are my delights.
Psalm 119:142-143


Princes persecute me without a cause,
But my heart stands in awe of Your word.
I rejoice at Your word
As one who finds great treasure.
I hate and abhor lying,
But I love Your law.
Psalm 119:161-163



"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9

 

[intojoy]

Bs"d

The Jews are the only ones who have a knowledge of God.

The Jews are the only ones who worship the one and only true God Y-H-W-H who is one.

Christianity worships a dead carpenter.


"Thus says Y-H-W-H: ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”
Zech 8:23

I understand what you are saying. Who knows?
But, can you describe the content of what a Christian must do in order to receive eternal life?
There are more than enough nut jobs to spend your time hammering away at.
I'm curious if the teaching of the cross is ridiculous in your estimation. Thanks bud


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[intojoy]

Blessed is the man who's transgressions are covered.


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[Elia]

I understand what you are saying. Who knows?
But, can you describe the content of what a Christian must do in order to receive eternal life?

Bs"d

This is what you have to do:

"But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."

Ecc 12:12-14, New American Standard Bible

You have to fear the one and only true God Y-H-W-H who is one, and you have to observe His commandments.

For a non-Jew that means observing the seven Noachide laws which were incorporated into the covenant God made with Noach.

These are:

1) Establish courts of law.

2) Do not murder

3) Do not worship idols

4) Do not blaspheme

5) Do not steal.

6) Do not commit adultery

7) Do not eat the limbs of a live animal.

By the way, that is what the Christian messiah said when asked: "How do I get eternal life?":

"Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”
Matt 19

Here is spoken about the 10 commandments, and about the law of Moses, which is really the law of God, when is mentioned "Love you neighbour as yourself", which is not of the 10 commandments, but of the Mosaic law, in Lev 19:18.

But here he spoke to a Jew. The 613 commandments are for the Jews.

For the non-Jews there are the 7 Noachidic commandments.

It is only Paul who starts throwing God's laws overboard.

I'm curious if the teaching of the cross is ridiculous in your estimation. Thanks bud

Yes it is. The reason for that can be found HERE.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

 

[Elia]

Because as I said, Jewish idolatry ceased to be a problem, the prohibition to this boiling of meat in milk was a non issue after the captivity.

Bs"d

Not boiling meat in milk is a law of God.

God's laws are never a non-issue for the Jews.



"But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."

Ecc 12:12-14, New American Standard Bible

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Bs"d

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

James 2


"But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."

Ecc 12:12-14, New American Standard Bible

What can I say! Amen. The work of Love and the total belief in God throughout the most agonizingly painful trials and tests.

You have quoted beautifully!


Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."