Modern Day Pharisaism

[radind]

That's what I thought. So much for a genuine desire to understand on your part. Sadly, your disingenuous is therefore noted.



Cruciform
+T+

I do object to your claim that I am disingenuous. It is sad because your approach does not promote constructive dialogue. I remain a truth seeker.

 

[Cruciform]

I do object to your claim that I am disingenuous. It is sad because your approach does not promote constructive dialogue. I remain a truth seeker.

As long as you don't have to read a couple of articles in order to better understand, right?

Regarding being a "truth seeker," see the last answer in Post #40 above.

 

[Ben Masada]

What the law was to the Pharisees, Jesus Christ was to the New Testament Church. (R. D. B.)

I can't believe you said something like that when Jesus never even dreamed the NT would ever rise.

What the Catholic religion is to the Catholic, Jesus Christ is to the Christian. What Calvinism is to the Calvinist, Jesus Christ is to the Christian.

And you go on with the torture!

The 2nd commandment says..."Thou shalt have no other god's before me" Exodus 20:3.

Is that why you have decided to go on for a demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman just as we have in Mat. 1:18? Unbelievable!

The Jews said that the Torah was the way, the truth, and the life. John took what the Jews said about the Torah and applied it to Jesus, John 14:6. It appears to me that people are more in Love with their religion than they are with Jesus Christ.

And Jesus himself in his Sermon of the Mount said that the Jews were the light of the world. Obviously plus the Torah, the Truth and the life they were. But of course, including Jesus but as part of the People and not on an individual basis.(Isaiah 42:6,7)

 

[Ben Masada]

I agree that Jesus Christ founded His Church in AD 33. However, I do not agree that this was 'the Catholic Church'. I will continue the seek the truth to the best of my ability and expect that we will continue to disagree.

Are you sure to be determined to continue in your search of the truth to the best of your ability? Start by becoming conscious that not only the Catholic Church but the whole of Christianity in general, Jesus never even dreamed it would ever rise. Paul was the one who founded Christianity in the city of Antioch if you read Acts 11:26.

 

[God's Truth]

Are you sure to be determined to continue in your search of the truth to the best of your ability? Start by becoming conscious that not only the Catholic Church but the whole of Christianity in general, Jesus never even dreamed it would ever rise. Paul was the one who founded Christianity in the city of Antioch if you read Acts 11:26.

Why won't you answer questions about your beliefs? Why do you only put down Jesus and Christians and the Holy Bible?
You say Jesus says to listen to Moses. Why don't you do what Moses says? You are to have a tent/temple, High Priest and a Lamb's sacrifice.

You do none of those things.

 

[intojoy]

The Pharisees did not know scripture because although they memorized the Torah they didn't have the illumination of the Holy Spirit.

To claim that they knew the word in and out is an oversimplified error.

What they knew was the Mishna which became equal with the word - bad on them.


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[God's Truth]

The Pharisees did not know scripture because although they memorized the Torah they didn't have the illumination of the Holy Spirit.

To claim that they knew the word in and out is an oversimplified error.

What they knew was the Mishna which became equal with the word - bad on them.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

The Pharisees did NOT obey.

Matthew 23:3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.


They did not even repent of their sins, just as you say we do not have to do.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)


What was John's baptism?

John' baptism was about preparing the people for Jesus to come and forgive them.

The people had to REPENT of their sins and PROVE that they repented by doing right.


Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.


Matthew 3:8
Produce fruit worthy of repentance.

Luke 3:8
Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.


You have no understanding because you do not obey Jesus.

 

[chair]

The Pharisees did not know scripture because although they memorized the Torah they didn't have the illumination of the Holy Spirit.

To claim that they knew the word in and out is an oversimplified error.

What they knew was the Mishna which became equal with the word - bad on them.

You really have no clue. Do you know what the Mishna is- and when it was compiled?

 

[intojoy]

You really have no clue. Do you know what the Mishna is- and when it was compiled?

Yes


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[chair]

Yes

From your post- clearly not. The Mishna did not exist in the time of Jesus.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Pharisees did not know scripture because although they memorized the Torah they didn't have the illumination of the Holy Spirit.

To claim that they knew the word in and out is an oversimplified error.

What they knew was the Mishna which became equal with the word - bad on them.

That's the most laughable thing I have ever heard: "The Pharisees did not know the Scriptures." Tell me, did Jesus know the Scriptures? Most definitely, Yes! What about if I prove to you that he was a Pharisee, would you continue with your joke?

 

[chair]

That's the most laughable thing I have ever heard: "The Pharisees did not know the Scriptures." Tell me, did Jesus know the Scriptures? Most definitely, Yes! What about if I prove to you that he was a Pharisee, would you continue with your joke?

Well, he went with bet Shammai on the question of divorce...

 

[Ben Masada]

Well, he went with bet Shammai on the question of divorce...

Shalom Chair! He who went with Bet Shammai on the question of divorce, Jesus? I don't think so but rather the Hellenist former disciple of Paul who wrote about him. I don't believe that any Jew would take part in the writings of the NT. Then perhaps you would ask me: So, what are you discussing with Christians? Their use of Jews to preach against Judaism. That's all. Let them leave the Jews alone and I am out.

 

[God's Truth]

Shalom Chair! He who went with Bet Shammai on the question of divorce, Jesus? I don't think so but rather the Hellenist former disciple of Paul who wrote about him. I don't believe that any Jew would take part in the writings of the NT. Then, perhaps you would ask me: So, what are you discussing with Christians? Their
use of Jews to preach against Judaism. That's all. Let them leave the Jews alone and I am out.

How do you obey Moses when he commands an animal sacrifice and going to the High Priest?

Christians obey Moses.

We have a tent/temple, it is our body.

We have a High Priest, Jesus Christ.

We have a blood offering, from the Lamb of God.

Now how are you obeying Moses?

 

[God's Truth]

No Jew who rejects Jesus obeys Moses.

 

[God's Truth]

John 5:45 "But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.


Luke 16:29
But Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.'

John 9:28
Then they heaped insults on him and said, "You are His disciple; we are disciples of Moses.

 

[radind]

As long as you don't have to read a couple of articles in order to better understand, right?

Regarding being a "truth seeker," see the last answer in Post #40 above.

I read quite a lot and have had about enough of your attitude.
Regardless of your assertions and assumptions, I remain a Truth seeker.

 

[radind]

Are you sure to be determined to continue in your search of the truth to the best of your ability? Start by becoming conscious that not only the Catholic Church but the whole of Christianity in general, Jesus never even dreamed it would ever rise. Paul was the one who founded Christianity in the city of Antioch if you read Acts 11:26.

My interpretation is that Jesus founded His Church and the Lord added to their number daily…

Acts 2: 36-39 (ESV)
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receives the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Acts 2: 47 (ESV)
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

 

[Ben Masada]

My interpretation is that Jesus founded His Church and the Lord added to their number daily…

Acts 2: 36-39 (ESV)
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receives the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Acts 2: 47 (ESV)
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Besides the fact that Jesus never knew any thing about the origin of Christianity, Jesus was a Jew and, Jews do not found churches but synagogues. Churches started with Paul, the founder of Christianity about 15 years after Jesus had been gone. (Acts 11:26) Now, about Acts 2, which Luke attributed to Peter the Apostle in the expectation of apostolic credibility, it was never written or delivered by Peter. If you read Acts 4:13, Peter was reported as ignorant and illiterate. Illiterate people do not write books. Besides, Peter was a Jew and he knew that the Romans had crucified Jesus, not the Jews.

 

[radind]

Besides the fact that Jesus never knew any thing about the origin of Christianity, Jesus was a Jew and, Jews do not found churches but synagogues. Churches started with Paul, the founder of Christianity about 15 years after Jesus had been gone. (Acts 11:26) Now, about Acts 2, which Luke attributed to Peter the Apostle in the expectation of apostolic credibility, it was never written or delivered by Peter. If you read Acts 4:13, Peter was reported as ignorant and illiterate. Illiterate people do not write books. Besides, Peter was a Jew and he knew that the Romans had crucified Jesus, not the Jews.

With our different perspectives, there looks to be no agreement and I will not continue this discussion.