Cross Reference
New member
"Ever 'learning' and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". That fits the preterist cult perfectly.
ECT Matthew 24:3ff is spoken to the very elect of God
- Thread starter Cross Reference
- Start date
"Ever 'learning' and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". That fits the preterist cult perfectly.
You have no explanation for Matt 16:28, so you resort to insults.
Cross Reference
New member
What is there to explain?
You have no explanation for the unfulfilled prophecy by John, Rev 1:7-8. ___ YOU JUST IGNORE IT AND MOVE ON.
Jesus made it clear that some of the people standing next to Him would not die before they saw Him coming in His kingdom.
You deny it happened
It was fulfilled in 70AD
Some of the Jews who pierced Him were still alive in 70AD.
How are "those who pierced Him" going to see Him coming if He hasn't come yet, considering all of "those who pieced Him" have been dead for over a 1,900 years?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" (Mt.16 27-28).
One of the meanings of the Greek word translated "coming" at Matthew 16:28 is "to appear" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
Therefore, we can understand that the Lord Jesus was saying that there were some of the Apostles who would see the Lord Jesus "appearing" in His kingdom before they died.
The words of Peter in his first epistle refers to this "appearing," and it happened at the "transfiguration" on the holy mount:
"For, skilfully devised fables not having followed out, we did make known to you the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but eye-witnesses having become of his majesty --for having received from God the Father honour and glory, such a voice being borne to him by the excellent glory: `This is My Son -- the beloved, in whom I was well pleased;' and this voice we -- we did hear, out of heaven borne, being with him in the holy mount" (2 Pet.1:16-18; YLT).
Therefore, Peter is speaking of seeing the Lord's "presence" and he also says that he was an eyewitness of His "majesty". The word "majesty" is translated from the Greek word megaleiotes and that word means "greatness, magnificence...of the visible splendor of the divine majesty as it appeared in the transfiguration of Christ, 2 Peter i.16" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
From this we can understand that what happened on the Holy Mount fulfilled the Lord Jesus' words that some of His Apostles would witness His "appearance" or "presence" in His kingdom.
In each gospel that records the words of the Lord Jesus saying that some of His Apostles will see Him in the kingdom the events of the "transfiguration" immediately follow. On the holy mount "His face did shine like the sun, and His rainment was as white as the light" (Mt.17:2).
That is how the Lord Jesus will appear in His kingdom.
Just for you, Tel-a-lie - sung to the Hymn "When the Saints Go Marching In"
Oh when the army - oh when the army...
Oh when Rome's army comes marching in...
O' Lord, I want to be left standing...
Oh when Rome's army comes marching in...
O' there He is - O' there He is...
O' there's the Lord...
O' its the Lord and not John Darby...
Who's heading up the Roman Army...
Oh when Rome's army comes marching in..
Oh when Rome's Army...
Oh when Rome's army...
Oh when Rome's army...
Interplanner
Well-known member
JerreyS,
there are several things that he said would happen before at least some of them died, so they all have to be included.
there are several things that he said would happen before at least some of them died, so they all have to be included.
Read the previous verse Jerry:
(Matt 16:27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Were men rewarded according to their works at the Transfiguration?
ANSWER: NO.
Matt 16:27 completely refutes the theory that Jesus was referring to the Transfiguration in verse 28.
The other fact that makes the Transfiguration theory preposterous, is that the Transfiguration occurred just a few days after Jesus said what He did in verse 28.
The Transfiguration theory wants us to believe Jesus told His Disciples that some of them would not taste death for an event that was less than a week away.
Don't you realize how stupid that is Jerry?
Interplanner
Well-known member
Danoh,
that 'those who pierced him' is quite a snag for you isn't it?
There are several things about the NT that have a time-lapse that makes them span out to the dofJ. Let me give another:
When Luke records the clearing of the money changes, he calls them 'leistes.' Go look it up. It's not common thieves. The 'leiste' was a terrorist, a pirate, an insurrectionist, and yes, they stole. So why would this be used? It doesn't really apply to the temple clearing, unless the revolt of Judaizers (Dan 8-9) is already collecting money to organize an attack. But it also means that the temple was made a den of brigands, which became true in the peak of the revolt. Very intruiguing word choice!
I mention this because 'those who pierced him' has two uses before we go flinging out to the far future: those at the crucifixion who may have had remorse, and those at the DofJ because of unusual signs recorded by Josephus that occurred there.
I don't think any of it is to be weighted too precisely, but some of the sayings about that generation and the sign of the Son of Man must connect to such major events as the DofJ as there aren't any other options in that generation.
That is much closer than events 2000 years later about which the audience of Jesus would have no use for urgent, vital instructions.
that 'those who pierced him' is quite a snag for you isn't it?
There are several things about the NT that have a time-lapse that makes them span out to the dofJ. Let me give another:
When Luke records the clearing of the money changes, he calls them 'leistes.' Go look it up. It's not common thieves. The 'leiste' was a terrorist, a pirate, an insurrectionist, and yes, they stole. So why would this be used? It doesn't really apply to the temple clearing, unless the revolt of Judaizers (Dan 8-9) is already collecting money to organize an attack. But it also means that the temple was made a den of brigands, which became true in the peak of the revolt. Very intruiguing word choice!
I mention this because 'those who pierced him' has two uses before we go flinging out to the far future: those at the crucifixion who may have had remorse, and those at the DofJ because of unusual signs recorded by Josephus that occurred there.
I don't think any of it is to be weighted too precisely, but some of the sayings about that generation and the sign of the Son of Man must connect to such major events as the DofJ as there aren't any other options in that generation.
That is much closer than events 2000 years later about which the audience of Jesus would have no use for urgent, vital instructions.
This is Exhibit A of what happens to Darby followers when they can't defend the false teachings of John Nelson Darby.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This verse completely refutes your idea that some of the Apostles saw the kingdom of God in 70AD:
"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God" (Lk.9:27).
According to the fairy tales of your the kingdom came in 70AD and every single person who was alive at that time was born again:
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (Jn.3:3-5).
You have somehow tricked your mind into believing that in 70AD the world was populated with nothing but born again people.
And you call me stupid!
There's an order of who goes into the kingdom:
(1 Cor 15:23 KJV) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
No one entered the kingdom until 70AD
Were rewards handed out at the Transfiguration? Yes or No?
If you're answer is no, and you still claim that Matt 16:28 refers to the Transfiguration......then I don't know what to call you.
Spam, as usual, as the perverter is getting picked apart-69/84 "posts" have his "Darby" spam.
Pathetic punk, here just to plagiarize from J. Stuart Russell, Hank Hanegraaf.
Did your saint Judas preach this "just one gospel" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.
Yes or No? Over 55 times I've asked you, punk. What's the problem? Afraid of me, Craigie? Yes...
Not a peep.
Fraud.
Plagiarized from Ken Gentry.
Plagiarism- from J. Stuart Russell.
Cross Reference
New member
Did I? I didn't know that. Thank you.
Who told you that because, you couldn't have learned it from reading the scriptures on your own?
Maybe, but, so what? What bearing has that bit on anything you have been brainwashed to pass on?
The Jews, as a pharisaic religion of the present age, is what is implied; those who know about and continue to reject Jesus Christ. Any rookie knows that.
Cross Reference
New member
Only the righteous are able to enter the kingdom of God; those who want to Know God and His ways in an intimate way. Only the violent of those desirous of overcoming in this life, the law of their flesh, will enter in ___ those who love the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind and strength.
Do you love the Lord, tetesy?? Can you even type the words out??
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Prove from the Scriptures that rewards were handed out by the Lord Jesus in 70AD.
The Lord told His disciples to pray for the kingdom to come to the earth:
"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Mt.6:10).
According to you the kingdom came to the earth in 70AD and all who were living on the earth at that time were born again.
That never happened but you have proved that you will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous!
Louis A. Barbieri, Jr., suggests the signifiance of those who were present on the Holy Mount:
"Why were Moses and Elijah, of all Old Testament people, present on this occasion? Perhaps these two men and the disciples suggest all the categories of people who will be in Jesus' coming kingdom. The disciples represent individuals who will be present in physical bodies. Moses represents saved individuals who have died or will die. Elijah represents saved individuals who will not experience death, but will be caught up to heaven alive (1 Thes. 4:17). These three groups will be present when Christ institutes His kingdom on earth. Furthermore, the Lord will be in His glory as He was at the transfiguration, and the kingdom will take place on earth, as this obviously did" (Walvoord & Zuck, The Bible Knowledge Commentary; New Testament [Colorado Springs: ChariotVictor Press, 1983], p.59).