Mass shooting in Orlando, Florida USA 20 dead

[ClimateSanity]

It's not too hard to do a brainstorming on this:
Blanket ban on Muslims (except diplomats and country representatives) entering the country for 2 or 3 generations.
Blanket ban on Muslims obtaining firearms.
Amend the law/constitution to define Islam as not a religion, i.e. not benefitting from protections accorded to other religions.
Keep close tracks on on all Muslims having entered the country this generation. (This would perhaps have deterred the possibly lying father of the Florida terrorist from bringing up his son as a good Muslim to beat up his wife and hate America.)
No Muslim charities.

Etc., etc. I am sure you could think of more. Muslims need to be taught that when they comeinto our countries to live, they all aspects of their culture behind them that are incompatible with our own values. There will be no Sharia law practised in our countries, no honour killings or forced female circumcision for starters and no woman should be permitted to wear a full face cover.
It's not difficult to come up with suggestions when you are not inhibited by idealism.

Excellent ideas. Some will say it is unamerican. I say that when a subset of the population is prone to cause terror, that subset loses some freedoms despite the innocence of many, especially those found to have connections with terror and those espousing hate on the internet and those sympathetic to terror figures.

 

[annabenedetti]

It's not too hard to do a brainstorming on this:
Blanket ban on Muslims (except diplomats and country representatives) entering the country for 2 or 3 generations.
Blanket ban on Muslims obtaining firearms.
Amend the law/constitution to define Islam as not a religion, i.e. not benefitting from protections accorded to other religions.
Keep close tracks on on all Muslims having entered the country this generation. (This would perhaps have deterred the possibly lying father of the Florida terrorist from bringing up his son as a good Muslim to beat up his wife and hate America.)
No Muslim charities.

Do you realize how much that sounds like the incremental incursions on the civil liberties of Jews under the Nazi regime?

What if you substituted "Jewish" or "Christian" for Muslim in your above?

How do you accomplish that mass taking away of constitutional liberty - and do it constitutionally?

It's not difficult to come up with suggestions when you are not inhibited by idealism.

It's not difficult to come up with suggestions when you are not inhibited by xenophobia.

 

[musterion]

Forced to agree with Alate on this one. Islam is really only a symptom of the actual disease. The leftists who took over decades ago are the real threat. If it weren't for them, none of these discussions would be taking place.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Not sure why you quoted my post 213, and then quoted me as if I said it rather than the article to which I'd linked. Thanks for clarifying.

I quoted post #213 to get your screenname

Working from a phone, I copy and pasted a section of post 177 and then copied your screen name from 213 so it would show annabennediti at the beginning.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Ok. I get it now. You are saying the article said that and not you. I assumed you affirmed the quote and didn't think about separating from you. It never occurred to me. It certainly wasn't intentional.

 

[annabenedetti]

Blanket ban on Muslims (except diplomats and country representatives) entering the country for 2 or 3 generations.

BTW, what you're looking for is something like the Chinese Exclusion Act. Which was repealed. Understandably.

 

[annabenedetti]

Ok. I get it now. You are saying the article said that and not you. I assumed you affirmed the quote and didn't think about separating from you. It never occurred to me. It certainly wasn't intentional.

Thank you, that's all I wanted to clarify (that I was quoting an article), just for the sake of accuracy.

 

[ClimateSanity]

BTW, what you're looking for is something like the Chinese Exclusion Act. Which was repealed. Understandably.

The Chinese were not committing acts of terror . It was not proper to use it in that situation.

 

[serpentdove]

What religion was Timothy McVeigh? What religion was Dylan Roof? What religion was Adam Lanza?

What do you think? :dizzy: Mt 7:21-23

 

[annabenedetti]

The Chinese were not committing acts of terror . It was not proper to use it in that situation.

So you exclude all for the actions of several? That sets a dangerous precedent - under the wrong leadership in this country, those civil restrictions could be turned against any group. Similarly, that's why people from all political persuasions have problems with the Patriot Act.

 

[kmoney]

OK, so let's be fair here:
He was a wife-beater.
He was emotionally unstable.
He had a volatile temper.
He was male.
He hated homosexuals, etc. so that settles it. The father was right. This attack had nothing to do with religion.

Oh, yes, and by the way, not that it matters,
He was a Muslim.
It was Ramadan.
IS declared that he was one of their operatives.
He himself declared beforehand that he had sworn allegiance to IS.

Go figure.

For those who need help in figuring: you can look at the man all you want and say he was emotionally unstable etc. Indeed, it seems often to me that anyone who commits an atrocity such as this, is deemed to be unstable a priori. Which does rather defeat the entire line of argument. But you are looking in the wrong direction. Look instead at the religion, at what it does to its adherents, whether stable and unstable.

It sounds like you think I posted that to minimize or ignore the factor Islam played. I didn't. I simply posted it because it draws a larger picture of who he was. He pledged allegiance to ISIS and I take him at his word until I hear otherwise. Also, the wife beating could be more evidence of Islam influencing him because of how some segments of Islam treat women.

 

[Alate_One]

No one is trying to win a fight over ideology. We are trying to limit the damage inflicted by that ideology. More importantly, we are trying to limit the power and perceived might of that ideology in the minds of its adherents.

You don't do that by banning them from the country and ostracizing the moderate members of the community. If you do that you play into the terrorists' hands. Instead, you welcome and embrace moderate elements of the ideology. And you do not react by bombing innocent people in their home countries and denouncing Islam as a whole.

 

[Alate_One]

Forced to agree with Alate on this one. Islam is really only a symptom of the actual disease. The leftists who took over decades ago are the real threat. If it weren't for them, none of these discussions would be taking place.

Was "W" one of these leftists?

 

[Angel4Truth]

It's not too hard to do a brainstorming on this:
Blanket ban on Muslims (except diplomats and country representatives) entering the country for 2 or 3 generations.
Blanket ban on Muslims obtaining firearms.
Amend the law/constitution to define Islam as not a religion, i.e. not benefitting from protections accorded to other religions.
Keep close tracks on on all Muslims having entered the country this generation. (This would perhaps have deterred the possibly lying father of the Florida terrorist from bringing up his son as a good Muslim to beat up his wife and hate America.)
No Muslim charities.

Etc., etc. I am sure you could think of more. Muslims need to be taught that when they come into our countries to live, they leave all aspects of their culture behind them that are incompatible with our own values. There will be no Sharia law practised in our countries, no polygamy, no honour killings or forced female circumcision for starters and no woman should be permitted to wear a full face cover.
It's not difficult to come up with suggestions when you are not inhibited by idealism.

Well said.

 

[Alate_One]

Well said.

So much for second amendment rights . . .

Also . . . hello Nazi Germany. They also banned "undesirables", Jews and other enemies of the state from owning firearms while loosening restrictions for everyone else. :doh:

 

[Angel4Truth]

So much for second amendment rights . . .

Also . . . hello Nazi Germany. They also banned "undesirables", Jews and other enemies of the state from owning firearms while loosening restrictions for everyone else. :doh:

I don't care what you think.

 

[Angel4Truth]

If the Bible were truly written by God then his Gay children would be loved and accepted within its pages.

They are, and told to repent of their sin and receive Christ, just like all other sinners with their sins of choice.

 

[Alate_One]

I don't care what you think.

It's not what I think, it's the bigotry being expressed in this thread by you and others. It's WRONG in the absolute sense.

34 The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.

It's been part of the extension of civil rights to all in this country and you're willing to throw that away because you're afraid. What a weak and feckless movement the right has become.

 

[Angel4Truth]

It's not what I think, it's the bigotry being expressed in this thread by you and others. It's WRONG in the absolute sense.

34 The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.

It's been part of the extension of civil rights to all and you're willing to throw that away because you're afraid. What a weak and feckless movement the right has become.

Im sorry, what part of " I dont care what you think" did you miss? I also dont care what you call me, what you think about me, etc.

My self esteem comes from the ONE and ONLY God. Im not the one needing safe spaces these days.

 

[rocketman]

You're projecting. Alate_One isn't ranting (or whining), you are. Her posts are calm and rational and devoid of apocalyptic fear-mongering. Unlike yours.

Well then, that just settles it now doesn't it? You have now spoken and so it is.... :chuckle: