Man's Nature vs Man's condition"?

Ktoyou

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
nikolai_42 said:
You seemed to be overlooking the critical difference between "Money is the root of all evil" and "The love of money is the root of all evil". So I didn't see the comparison you made. But even assuming it held, the idea of trade misses the point of the original quote of Jesus (EDIT : WRONG - it was I Tim 6:10). Just explaining why I didn't buy your comparison.
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It is the love of self to exclusion. Greed-Avarice. The taking into oneself.

A haught disdainfull look
A lying tongue
Hands that shed innocent blood
A heart that devises wicked plots
Feet that are swift to run into mischief
A deceitful witness that uttereth lies
Him that soweth discord among brethren
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Ktoyou said:
It is the love of self to exclusion. Greed-Avarice. The taking into oneself.
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{underline added)

Hence I would say that your original conclusion (i.e. the one you erected for dialm and implicitly seemed to reject) regarding trade would hold given that it implies increase of the proceeds of trade for oneself.
 
PureX

PureX

Well-known member
bybee said:
Couple of things, we want to know the unknowable. We may apprehend God through what He has revealed in nature, that is, factual. But we also apprehend Him through experience of Him.
One's experience of God is personal.
I have reached a point in life wherein I accept "there are mysteries" yet I am able to know all that I need to know.
Thanks
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I agree, and feel the same way. I feel no need to 'chase after' God these days via special knowledge, or special experiences. I am not only content with the Mystery, I have come to understand that my limitations are a gift. The Mystery is a blessing, not a shortcoming. I don't want to know it all, or be it all, or be the ruler or judge of all I survey. Just to be is good enough for me, and to aid others in their being is reason enough to remain. The rest belongs to God. And I am grateful for that.
 
Ktoyou

Ktoyou

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Greed is etymologically related to hunger and insatiable appetite. The desire to take in. Avarice is a desire to gain and withhold. Greed is therefore, more the motive of necessity while avarice implies to retain, to keep to oneself.

While the Biblical interpretative may, in cases be greed, the aspect of sin, being to care only for self is more accurate, avarice.

Pride, when in context of achievement is less sinful than pride, as one assumes to retain a sense of entitlement.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Ktoyou said:
Greed is etymologically related to hunger and insatiable appetite. The desire to take in. Avarice is a desire to gain and withhold. Greed is therefore, more the motive of necessity while avarice implies to retain, to keep to oneself.

While the Biblical interpretative may, in cases be greed, the aspect of sin, being to care only for self is more accurate, avarice.

Pride, when in context of achievement is less sinful than pride, as one assumes to retain a sense of entitlement.
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Touche!
 
Ktoyou

Ktoyou

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nikolai_42 said:
{underline added)

Hence I would say that your original conclusion (i.e. the one you erected for dialm and implicitly seemed to reject) regarding trade would hold given that it implies increase of the proceeds of trade for oneself.
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I was evoking, not rejecting.
 
Ktoyou

Ktoyou

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serpentdove said:
Phil 3:19
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Yes, there is a bridge from greed to gluttony.



"Sire preest," quod he,, "artow a vicary?
Or arte a person? Sey, sooth, by thy fey!
Be what thou be, ne breke thou nat oure pley;
For every man, save thou, hath toold his tale.

He was a shepherde and noght a mercenarie.
And thogh he hooly were and vertuous,
He was to synful men nat despitous,
Ne of his speche daungerous ne digne,
But in his techyng discreet and benynge.

But it were any person obstinat,
What so he were, of heigh or lough estat,
Hym wolde he snybben sharply for the nonys.

experts from The Parson's Tale

see here modern English
 
B

bybee

New member
Ktoyou said:
Yes, there is a bridge from greed to gluttony.



"Sire preest," quod he,, "artow a vicary?
Or arte a person? Sey, sooth, by thy fey!
Be what thou be, ne breke thou nat oure pley;
For every man, save thou, hath toold his tale.

He was a shepherde and noght a mercenarie.
And thogh he hooly were and vertuous,
He was to synful men nat despitous,
Ne of his speche daungerous ne digne,
But in his techyng discreet and benynge.

But it were any person obstinat,
What so he were, of heigh or lough estat,
Hym wolde he snybben sharply for the nonys.

experts from The Parson's Tale

see here modern English
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Indeed! They Canterbury Tales were very instructive!
 
rougueone

rougueone

New member
There is a small series O.Chambers is teaching about currently. This was yesterdays date. 12-10 Then go today's date. 12-11
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It is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. —Galatians 4:22

Paul was not dealing with sin in this chapter of Galatians, but with the relation of the natural to the spiritual. The natural can be turned into the spiritual only through sacrifice. Without this a person will lead a divided life. Why did God demand that the natural must be sacrificed? God did not demand it. It is not God’s perfect will, but His permissive will. God’s perfect will was for the natural to be changed into the spiritual through obedience. Sin is what made it necessary for the natural to be sacrificed.

Abraham had to offer up Ishmael before he offered up Isaac (see Genesis 21:8-14). Some of us are trying to offer up spiritual sacrifices to God before we have sacrificed the natural. The only way we can offer a spiritual sacrifice to God is to “present [our] bodies a living sacrifice…” (Romans 12:1). Sanctification means more than being freed from sin. It means the deliberate commitment of myself to the God of my salvation, and being willing to pay whatever it may cost.

If we do not sacrifice the natural to the spiritual, the natural life will resist and defy the life of the Son of God in us and will produce continual turmoil. This is always the result of an undisciplined spiritual nature. We go wrong because we stubbornly refuse to discipline ourselves physically, morally, or mentally. We excuse ourselves by saying, “Well, I wasn’t taught to be disciplined when I was a child.” Then discipline yourself now! If you don’t, you will ruin your entire personal life for God.

God is not actively involved with our natural life as long as we continue to pamper and gratify it. But once we are willing to put it out in the desert and are determined to keep it under control, God will be with it. He will then provide wells and oases and fulfill all His promises for the natural (see Genesis 21:15-19).

Wisdom From Oswald Chambers

Re-state to yourself what you believe, then do away with as much of it as possible, and get back to the bedrock of the Cross of Christ. My Utmost for His Highest, November 25, 848 R


http://utmost.org/the-offering-of-the-natural/
 
B

bybee

New member
rougueone said:
There is a small series O.Chambers is teaching about currently. This was yesterdays date. 12-10 Then go today's date. 12-11
---------------------------
It is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. —Galatians 4:22

Paul was not dealing with sin in this chapter of Galatians, but with the relation of the natural to the spiritual. The natural can be turned into the spiritual only through sacrifice. Without this a person will lead a divided life. Why did God demand that the natural must be sacrificed? God did not demand it. It is not God’s perfect will, but His permissive will. God’s perfect will was for the natural to be changed into the spiritual through obedience. Sin is what made it necessary for the natural to be sacrificed.

Abraham had to offer up Ishmael before he offered up Isaac (see Genesis 21:8-14). Some of us are trying to offer up spiritual sacrifices to God before we have sacrificed the natural. The only way we can offer a spiritual sacrifice to God is to “present [our] bodies a living sacrifice…” (Romans 12:1). Sanctification means more than being freed from sin. It means the deliberate commitment of myself to the God of my salvation, and being willing to pay whatever it may cost.

If we do not sacrifice the natural to the spiritual, the natural life will resist and defy the life of the Son of God in us and will produce continual turmoil. This is always the result of an undisciplined spiritual nature. We go wrong because we stubbornly refuse to discipline ourselves physically, morally, or mentally. We excuse ourselves by saying, “Well, I wasn’t taught to be disciplined when I was a child.” Then discipline yourself now! If you don’t, you will ruin your entire personal life for God.

God is not actively involved with our natural life as long as we continue to pamper and gratify it. But once we are willing to put it out in the desert and are determined to keep it under control, God will be with it. He will then provide wells and oases and fulfill all His promises for the natural (see Genesis 21:15-19).

Wisdom From Oswald Chambers

Re-state to yourself what you believe, then do away with as much of it as possible, and get back to the bedrock of the Cross of Christ. My Utmost for His Highest, November 25, 848 R


http://utmost.org/the-offering-of-the-natural/
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Thank you for your response.
 
egyptianmuslim

egyptianmuslim

New member
bybee said:
I'm restudying Revelation in preparation for a Bible Study. This is my least favorite book to study!
I came across this idea of the paradox in which humankind finds itself in that God, because of His infinitude plus man's sinful condition, is unknowable to mankind yet life itself depends on mankind knowing God?
Of course this is the necessity for an intercessor.
But, what I am pondering is when God created Adam he did not have a "sinful" nature inherent in his genetic code? It was through his God given freewill that Adam chose to go against one of God's prohibitions, thereby acquiring a sinful condition which irrevocably altered his nature until the coming of Christ?
I am not a theologian so would very much like to hear the thoughts on this subject by those of you more knowledgeable than I.
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Jesus as a human is incompletely genetically. related to Adam .
Adam was avid but not Jesus . Satan come to us through avidity God does not give us. free will but avidity and ability to contact with satan
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
,,,,,"ye shall not surly die",,this became the serpents destiny...to be born into the earth and "surly die",,and is why he comes "while mankind is witness to it",,,
 
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