LOST - discussion about the TV series LOST. ** SPOILER ALERT **

zoo22

Well-known member
Okay, well, I just watched it again.

Knight, I don't think that the Locke mumbling island stuff was intentionally bad, but maybe it was intentionally forced ... It seems like every LA_X island reference is being hammered out. Or in.

I do think that the Bernard scene was weird. First time I thought it was weird, but this 2nd time I thought it was really weird. It really did seem as if Bernard was prodding him. As if Bernard knew something.

I'd though similar with Miles in the Sawyer episode, but Bernard's scene even more. The dialogue and the delivery were both just very odd and baiting. Kind of like he was saying "Come on Jack, look, can't you put these things together?" ...

"Oceanic 815 ... Pretty weird, huh? Maybe you're on to something here."

On to something? On to what?
 

mmstroud

Silver Member
Silver Subscriber
Okay, in the past I didn't read this thread because up to a month ago, I hadn't watched a single episode of Lost and had some weird idea about it being a reality show like Survivor. I got a friend hooked on Supernatural and she told me I'd love Lost, so...

We got Netflix about a month ago and started watching Season 1. (ala Knight - live streaming, with the last season viewed on the Wii - INCREDIBLE quality!) Of course, I was hooked with the first episode. I got several episodes ahead of my husband and would go back sometimes and watch them over again with him - very helpful and fun. You catch a lot more the second time through. In a month we caught up all the way to the episode that preceded the one that aired Tuesday night. It helped that my husband was on vacation for two weeks...

I have to force myself to watch for more than just entertainment value. I catch nearly everything, as far as people popping up and phrases that are repeated and numerical references - that kind of stuff. But I've always loved being surprised. My husband tries to figure out the big story with every episode and is totally okay when he's wrong. Maybe I like to be surprised because I hate being wrong... :think:

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone here also watches Supernatural. (I know AMR did...) It's also turned into a battle between good and evil and the character who played Jacob on Lost played the 'meat suit' of Lucifer on Supernatural. Someone told me that was intentional on the part of the writers - I think he probably appeared on Lost first... Fun trivia if true.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Okay, in the past I didn't read this thread because up to a month ago, I hadn't watched a single episode of Lost and had some weird idea about it being a reality show like Survivor. I got a friend hooked on Supernatural and she told me I'd love Lost, so...

We got Netflix about a month ago and started watching Season 1. (ala Knight - live streaming, with the last season viewed on the Wii - INCREDIBLE quality!) Of course, I was hooked with the first episode. I got several episodes ahead of my husband and would go back sometimes and watch them over again with him - very helpful and fun. You catch a lot more the second time through. In a month we caught up all the way to the episode that preceded the one that aired Tuesday night. It helped that my husband was on vacation for two weeks...

I have to force myself to watch for more than just entertainment value. I catch nearly everything, as far as people popping up and phrases that are repeated and numerical references - that kind of stuff. But I've always loved being surprised. My husband tries to figure out the big story with every episode and is totally okay when he's wrong. Maybe I like to be surprised because I hate being wrong... :think:
Wow! You guys are hardcore! Six seasons in less than a month??? Are your noses bleeding?

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone here also watches Supernatural. (I know AMR did...) It's also turned into a battle between good and evil and the character who played Jacob on Lost played the 'meat suit' of Lucifer on Supernatural. Someone told me that was intentional on the part of the writers - I think he probably appeared on Lost first... Fun trivia if true.
Never heard of it... but it sounds like something I would like.

After LOST is over I am going to take a long hiatus from any TV series. But maybe sometime next year I will check out Supernatural.
 

zoo22

Well-known member
Okay, in the past I didn't read this thread because up to a month ago, I hadn't watched a single episode of Lost and had some weird idea about it being a reality show like Survivor. I got a friend hooked on Supernatural and she told me I'd love Lost, so...

We got Netflix about a month ago and started watching Season 1. (ala Knight - live streaming, with the last season viewed on the Wii - INCREDIBLE quality!) Of course, I was hooked with the first episode. I got several episodes ahead of my husband and would go back sometimes and watch them over again with him - very helpful and fun. You catch a lot more the second time through. In a month we caught up all the way to the episode that preceded the one that aired Tuesday night. It helped that my husband was on vacation for two weeks...

I have to force myself to watch for more than just entertainment value. I catch nearly everything, as far as people popping up and phrases that are repeated and numerical references - that kind of stuff. But I've always loved being surprised. My husband tries to figure out the big story with every episode and is totally okay when he's wrong. Maybe I like to be surprised because I hate being wrong... :think:

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone here also watches Supernatural. (I know AMR did...) It's also turned into a battle between good and evil and the character who played Jacob on Lost played the 'meat suit' of Lucifer on Supernatural. Someone told me that was intentional on the part of the writers - I think he probably appeared on Lost first... Fun trivia if true.

I think that's the best way to watch it. In a big clump. You see certain things more clearly. But it can get cloudy, too... All that LOST spinning around your head.

(I have that "spinning around, lost" problem without the show. :plain: )

I'd watched it that way with the first 2 seasons. Caught up all at once. It was great. Then you had to have it recorded or buy/rent/borrow the DVDs, though... Now it's all accessible, like on Netflix, which is cool.

For the past couple of years, I haven't watched much other TV. Don't even have cable anymore.

I re-watched all of the seasons back-to-back before season 6 started, and my brain got pretty muddy. That's a lot of hours of LOST. :plain:
 

zoo22

Well-known member
Wow. ... It's been a while since I really dug into some of the LOST theories on fan sites and LOST forums and whatnot (I followed a number closely for about 2 years) ... I've been paying attention here and there, and there are a couple of writers I'll check each week, but this season I've mostly been steering clear of it all, primarily because of spoilers which I really want to avoid. Also, I'd gotten kind of sick of a lot of the theories.

And I've liked this thread a lot.

But this afternoon I took a look around... I'd forgotten how crazy it is out there in LOST land!! There're theories left-n-right, up-n-down, side-to-side, and loop-de-looping.

I'm glad I'd stepped back some this season and just focused on my own thoughts and used TOL as my LOST sounding ground. I actually wish I could watch the finale with you guys. :) It's been a really fun thread.
 

mmstroud

Silver Member
Silver Subscriber
Wow! You guys are hardcore! Six seasons in less than a month??? Are your noses bleeding?

:chuckle: It was ridiculous. I think 'hardcore' is putting in too nicely - 'obsessed' and 'need to get a life' maybe...

Never heard of it... but it sounds like something I would like.

After LOST is over I am going to take a long hiatus from any TV series. But maybe sometime next year I will check out Supernatural.

We actually came across it several years ago when we didn't have cable or satellite or anything, actually - we live in an area where you don't get anything with a regular antenna. We had Netflix and it looked weird and interesting, so we ordered it and we got hooked.

The good news for you is that it doesn't stream on Netflix - you'll have to order the discs and wait for them! I have to say - as much as I liked Lost, Supernatural is still my favorite.
 

mmstroud

Silver Member
Silver Subscriber
I think that's the best way to watch it. In a big clump. You see certain things more clearly. But it can get cloudy, too... All that LOST spinning around your head.

Absolutely the best way. Everyone had warned us that certain seasons were stupid and almost made them stop watching. (Maybe 3 and 4? Can't remember.) We didn't get that feeling at all. Continuity problems would probably be more obvious, but I didn't pick up on any - course, I wasn't really looking for any...

(I have that "spinning around, lost" problem without the show. :plain: )

:dizzy:

For the past couple of years, I haven't watched much other TV. Don't even have cable anymore.

We lived without cable or satellite for about seven years. We're getting ready to ditch our satellite again when our contract is up. There's so much available through Netflix and even through the network sites (for free!) that it seems ridiculous to pay almost a hundred dollars a month for 250 channels of nothing. :doh:
 

zoo22

Well-known member
Here you go, Knight... I figured I ought to get this up before tonight's episode, because I think the episode could make or break your theory...

Well....

I don't believe that Jacob is really dead.

Jacob wants to leave his post as "island protector" but I don't think dying was his way out.

I'm not sure how all the details of this theory work out but here is what I think..... (this theory has some similarities to other LOST theories but there are some major aspects of this theory that are unique - as far as I know)

I believe that Jacob is pulling a long con, a very long looooong con. Jacob has tricked the MIB into thinking that the MIB killed Jacob via Ben (the loophole). However, I believe Ben killed a ALT version of Jacob that was created via time travel and the sideways realities. Jacob wanted the MIB to kill the ALT version of himself, after all he wanted off the island entirely (not just in one reality). And Jacob couldn't have multiple versions of himself living elsewhere (have you ever seen the Prestige?). Therefore the ALT version of Jacob needed to die in the foot of the statue and somebody other than the MIB needed to do the deed.

Jacob has been off the island many times but he still had his responsibility on the island therefore these trips off the island to recruit and manipulate the candidates were not what Jacob was truly seeking. Jacob wanted a fresh start, a clean slate (a Tabula Rasa).

So how did Jacob accomplish getting a fresh new life off the island?

The answer takes us all the way back to the Pilot episode pt. 2. After the plane crash Claire hadn't felt her baby move in a long time, Claire tells Shannon... "I haven't felt the baby move since yesterday". What we don't know is that tragically Claire's baby has died inside the womb. Jacob claims Aaron's body and leaps in Clarie's belly, Claire feels her baby move once again. Jacob moves in Claires womb the moment that Gin feeds her fish (Jacob likes fish, just ask the MIB). The scene where Clarie's baby moves is also directly after the most famous scene of all, where Locke explains to Walt about there being two sides "one dark, and one white". Therefore, at that point of the show the long con has just begun and both sides have been introduced.

Jacob manipulated the psychic that Claire visited in Australia to convince Claire to board flight 815 thereby giving Jacob what he needed (a baby boy body to claim). Jacob also manipulated all the rest of our losties to get them to fill the roles he needed filling to pull off his long con.

Jacob also needed his new body to be able to withstand the effects of the electromagnetism on the island which is why he had Claire abducted by Ethan and "the others" and treated with medication, the same medication that allows Desmond to remain healthy. Or possibly "the others" are actually unknowingly working against Jacob's plan and were trying to keep him on the island by removing him from Claire's womb but that plan was foiled when Claire escaped with the help of Rousseau.

Either way, Jacob/Aaron made his way off the island with the help of the Oceanic 6 and is now living a fresh new life off the island being raised by Claire's mother.

The MIB thinks he killed Jacob. Yet in reality he only killed a ALT version of Jacob and even that killing was by Jacob's design.

So now all we need is Jacob's replacement which is looking more and more like Jack even though Desmond has been fulfilling some of Jacob's duties as of late.

Jacob's long con will be complete once his replacement fully realizes and accepts his role as the island protector and the guy who keeps evil (the smoke monster) from leaving the island.

Okay, I think it's a great theory. I've always disliked the Aaron is Jacob theories, but this is better than any I've read. I don't quite buy it. But if it's correct, I think tonights episode will shed some light.

But buy it or not, here's what I like about it:

  1. The long con has been such a longtime part of the show, it'd be awesome to see it manifest this way. Plus, it'd be great to see MIB's long con (MIB killing Jacob via Ben via Locke) trumped by an even longer con.
  2. The twist(s). It would genuinely surprise a lot of people,
  3. It uses LOST's lexicon. It incorporates a number of different constant LOST aspects (time travel/alt reality, birth, death/rebirth, Aaron, long con...), things that have been a part of the LOST world.
  4. Related, all the pieces are already there. There's no new concept to introduce.
  5. The extraneous details. It includes some great unanswered details (like the psychic),
  6. Adds character to Jacob. It twists Jacob's (otherwise currently pretty void) character in a really interesting way. There's more to Jacob that we haven't learned yet.
  7. Aaron: Aaron's got to swing back into the picture. He's important, and he's got to come back into play somehow. This seems as good a possibility for his being a part of the puzzle as others I've heard, better than most.
  8. It loops.
  9. Part of that loop is that it goes right back to the first episode.

I like it because while it might seem it, it's not "out of the blue" if you really examine it, yet it still would be an unexpected and complicated twist. There are so few unexpected twists I can imagine for the endgame of LOST that would be interesting and manage to incorporate what we know and to fit with the details we want to know more about (given things that fit, there seem so few possible surprises, meaning okay it'd be a surprise if aliens landed, but it doesn't fit). Out of things we know of LOST, all of the things we've learned through all these years, it works.

Again, I don't think I agree with it (And again, I've never agreed with the Aaron is Jacob theories), but's an interesting, well-thought out take on it for sure, especially with the aspect of killing an "alt" Jacob. I could see some being accurate if not all. And after tonight, I might agree with it (or maybe I'll wait to agree or disagree until after the finale's ended :plain: )

I've thrown lots of what I think/don't think out of the window the past month.

I think tonight's episode could make it clear whether the theory's legit. We'll see what's in the past. I think there's going to be a whole lot revealed, and at least one very big surprise.

I do expect some baby/birth plot line, so we'll see...

(continued next post)
 

zoo22

Well-known member
(continued from previous post)

- Why is there 3 Lockes? (Smokie, the dead and buried Locke, and the ALT Locke)

Because Terry O'Quinn is triple-awesome.

But really I think there are just 2. I think unLocke is more an "imitation," meaning it's not really a body. IMO, MIB having Locke's "body" is one that doesn't really make much sense if you think about it for a bit.

But anyway, I figure there's no ruling out that somehow it could still become Locke again.

- What will happen with the non-ALT, off island, reality? Which is where Aaron/Jacob reside? That's the same place that Walt and baby Ji Yeon Kwon reside.

Good question. I currently think everything might get zapped/merged into the current alt, albeit somewhat changed (again), and maybe going back to the original plane ride again (so the "current" off island reality would cease to exist, kind of). That way everyone can die, but it's not so bad, because they're okay. Like Sun & Jin. It was sad, but you knew they were happily ever after in the LA_X alt. I don't know how that'd fit with this theory, though. I guess if Jacob's thwarted in his "rebirth."

Or consider that there could be two Aaron's, especially if one has died and been "claimed"... If your theory were correct, and Jacob claimed OTL Aaron, the LA_X_alt Aaron would be different altogether, though the body would be similar. Hm.

- Was Locke smokie all along? Or was smokie Vincent all along? Or maybe both? (at times)

I don't think either. Maybe both at times.

- How did all of this start in the first place? Was it a time travel experiment gone horribly wrong?

Probably to some extent, or at least that probably was involved. Maybe more of unwitting experiment... Man trying to harness/control the "powers" of the island. I think there was probably some old-school frozen donkey wheel time/space shifting shenanigan stuff that happened. It was built for a reason and it seems pretty old.

- Will all of our losties (except Jack) need to die on the island?

That's where I've been leaning. But since this past episode (The Candidate), I question it a bit... Because of un-Locke knowing they hadn't died. As if something would have happened if they had. But there also could be other ways/reasons he knew some of them had survived. Right now, I'm still sticking with they'll die.

Therefore will Jack in the ALT need to die?

Good question.

- Will one of those deaths be Kate killing Sawyer? A dying Sawyer asked Kate in Season 2 "why did you kill me?"

I'd love that.

- What does Widmore want with the island?

I think he's mostly driven by power, but also wants to save the world. I think what unLocke had told Desmond about Widmore before sending him down the well was true.

One thing interesting about Widmore to me is that he's sent/brought almost every person left to the island. Or he and Eloise.

- What happens with Richard? Does he stay on as Jack's "adviser"?

I think he's got to die.

Their current "mission" is to blow the plane up? Maybe he'll die then.

- How do the mirror's in the lighthouse fit into all of this?

I really think that they were just a (expensive prop) way to look at the candidates lives off island. And to help further the concept of mirrors connecting alt realit(ies) to the island.

- Who are "Adam and Eve"?

I never thought I'd be saying this, but I think Adam might be MIB.

- Cabin antics, how did all of that fit in?

I think it's 50/50 we'll find out.

Maybe if Hurley uses Jacob's ashes, there'll be an opportunity for an explanation. Like whether the ash circle kept smokie in or kept him out... Even something that simple would be a reveal. I don't know who was in that cabin, but it sure seems like it was smokie. But there was that piece of Jacob's tapestry left there for Ilana, which seemed to be Jacob saying "I'm not here anymore; I'm at the statue." And it's not like smokie couldn't be out on the island, as we've seen him out there plenty of times, so I don't know how the ashes would have been containing him in the cabin. That's one of the places I don't have an idea of what was going on.

- Claire and Sayid, kinda claimed, kinda not??

I think Sayid made his redemptive move with the bomb on the sub, and that's done. He tipped to the good side in his death sacrifice.

Claire, I don't know, but I think she'll emerge again as the old Claire. Now that she has more of a real role in the LA_X alt, there's more focus on her character progression. I think there's going to be a bunch of Claire. She's got to be about ready to have Aaron in the LA_X alt. I figure that's got to be a big spin/reveal point. Maybe not.

- Will Jack set things right by "lifting it up"?

I sure hope so! I really, really hope that line makes it's way back around.

That stadium scene was one of my favorites of LOST.

I'm trying to completely reset things I've been thinking about LOST and trying to see it in different ways in these final weeks... Re-looking at things I'd ruled out. Which is a reason I like reading this theory. Like what we might see in the islands past? Really looking forward to it. Has some of what we've been seeing been going on longer than we might have thought (besides Jacob & MIB)?
 
Last edited:

zoo22

Well-known member
Knight, mostly I don't buy in because (I've said this a few times before so forgive my repetition) I think that the end will be the "it only ends once," that Jacob had spoke of on the beach with MIB.

"It only ends once, the rest is just progress." I think we're seeing the end story.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
But really I think there are just 2. I think unLocke is more an "imitation," meaning it's not really a body. IMO, MIB having Locke's "body" is one that doesn't really make much sense if you think about it for a bit.
Yeah, I came to that conclusion after I posted the theory.

A similar instance is that smokie appeared as Alex to Ben but wasn't really using her dead body.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Knight, mostly I don't buy in because (I've said this a few times before so forgive my repetition) I think that the end will be the "it only ends once," that Jacob had spoke of on the beach with MIB.

"It only ends once, the rest is just progress." I think we're seeing the end story.
I don't "buy" any theories.

That isn't the fun of theories (IMO).

I like theories for the sheer creativity and mental gymnastics.
 

zoo22

Well-known member
It's not guaranteed.

Not that I care much about Frank. Many fans love him. I never got that, but to each their own. But, dead? Not for sure. Don't be surprised if he washes ashore.

I think he likely died, but I'm just not ruling it out that he survived. I don't care much for Frank (as I said it's as they killed off a bush), but I'd love to see him wind up with some purpose besides for one-liners.
 

zoo22

Well-known member
I don't "buy" any theories.

That isn't the fun of theories (IMO).

I like theories for the sheer creativity and mental gymnastics.

Good point and I do agree... That's why I tried to focus on what I really liked about your theory and why, and tried to emphasize how well I thought you'd thought it out.

I love your theories.
 
Top