LOST - discussion about the TV series LOST. ** SPOILER ALERT **

MaryContrary

New member
Hall of Fame
Have ya ever considered that Jacob is hiding in Vincent's body??? :think:

:shocked:

You know, it occurs to me that the "evil vibe" could just be because Jacob's actor, Mark Pellegrino, plays the devil in Supernatural, the other favorite t.v. series just he and I watch together. :eek:

That'd probably explain why Matthew doesn't see it. :idunno:
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
What do you think is the significance of (Jacob's?) well?
Ironically there was no significance at all for that well... just a place to fetch water. :doh: :D

Actually, they did make a point to let us know (via the dropped torch) that the well was deep but had water at the bottom so maybe there is a chance that Desmond2 could have survived.

And maybe... just maybe there is something down there that Desmond2 needs to see or do?
 

GuySmiley

Well-known member
Ironically there was no significance at all for that well... just a place to fetch water. :doh: :D

Actually, they did make a point to let us know (via the dropped torch) that the well was deep but had water at the bottom so maybe there is a chance that Desmond2 could have survived.

And maybe... just maybe there is something down there that Desmond2 needs to see or do?
The preview of next week showed Desmond sitting at the bottom of the well alive and well (no pun intended, but maybe not 'well', after all he's alone and at the bottom of a well . . .)

I have a prediction: Next week, the dog makes a comeback. It runs up to Hurly barking, Hurly says, "whats that boy? Desmond is trapped in a well? Ok, take us to him!"
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The preview of next week showed Desmond sitting at the bottom of the well alive and well (no pun intended, but maybe not 'well', after all he's alone and at the bottom of a well . . .)

I have a prediction: Next week, the dog makes a comeback. It runs up to Hurly barking, Hurly says, "whats that boy? Desmond is trapped in a well? Ok, take us to him!"
:doh: I never watch the previews because I don't want to know what's up next. Thanks a lot for ruining it for me! :madmad:

Just kidding of course!! :chuckle: (about the being mad part)
 

GuySmiley

Well-known member
:doh: I never watch the previews because I don't want to know what's up next. Thanks a lot for ruining it for me! :madmad:

Just kidding of course!! :chuckle: (about the being mad part)
:chuckle: I was actually starting to feel bad before even finishing the first sentence.
 

zoo22

Well-known member
What do you think is the significance of (Jacob's?) well?

The one Desmond is in? At first I thought it was the well at the Orchid station (the one Locke went down, where the island-moving Frozen Donkey Wheel is), but I think it's a different, similar well, and similarly close to a heavy-duty pocket of [island-moving, world-saving, time-shifting, universe-connecting] energy... Maybe the one that Zoe's looking for. I figure if there aren't tunnels and wheels and such down there, somehow it's still going to connect to Desmond's ability to withstand electromagnetic events.

I have no idea why un-Locke pushed him down there, though.

Maybe he's just laying at the bottom of a well.

EDIT: Whoops, I just read a post I'd missed... Regarding the preview for next week. :plain:

Ironically there was no significance at all for that well... just a place to fetch water. :doh: :D

Actually, they did make a point to let us know (via the dropped torch) that the well was deep but had water at the bottom so maybe there is a chance that Desmond2 could have survived.

And maybe... just maybe there is something down there that Desmond2 needs to see or do?

It didn't even cross my mind that he would be dead. :chuckle:
 
Last edited:

The Graphite

New member
:doh: I never watch the previews because I don't want to know what's up next. Thanks a lot for ruining it for me! :madmad:

Just kidding of course!! :chuckle: (about the being mad part)
Could have been worse. He could have mentioned the part of the preview in which Desmond drank a Red Bull and flew himself right out of the well, climbed on the back of the nearest polar bear, snapped off a long branch to use as a jousting lance, and charged off to the Smoking Club's camp to win the day at the last minu... erhh, oops. :dunce:
 

zoo22

Well-known member
Could have been worse. He could have mentioned the part of the preview in which Desmond drank a Red Bull and flew himself right out of the well, climbed on the back of the nearest polar bear, snapped off a long branch to use as a jousting lance, and charged off to the Smoking Club's camp to win the day at the last minu... erhh, oops. :dunce:

Where does he get a Red Bull did he bring it with him?? That couldn't be: Red Bull comes in cans and Desmond had said he had no metal on him!?!? Was it in the well!??

The polar bear/jousting lance thing sounds about right though. I'd figured as much.
 

The Graphite

New member
Where does he get a Red Bull did he bring it with him?? That couldn't be: Red Bull comes in cans and Desmond had said he had no metal on him!?!? Was it in the well!??

The polar bear/jousting lance thing sounds about right though. I'd figured as much.
After the experiment, Widmore took him over to his submarine liquor cabinet and mixed him up a nice little mixer of Red Bull and McCutcheon's, something l like to call a Bull in a China Shop. It'll have you knocking down anything that gets in your way.

Hence his jousting on the back of a polar bear. Which I bet makes a lot more sense, now that you understand the background, eh? :chuckle:
 

The Graphite

New member
[I just published an extensive and comprehensive theory entailing my observations on the parenthetical or "mirror-image" storytelling on Lost, which uses extreme "history repeating itself" to form the stucture of the overall story. Much of this has already been posted here in bits and pieces, but for completeness, here is the full "theory" I just submitted at the Lost theories blog that Knight and I frequent. Some of these you have not seen yet. I believe it leaves little doubt as to the certainty of my observations on this phenomenon. Enjoy.]


I can't help but think that the vast majority of viewers (including here) are missing an amazing aspect of how the story of Lost is told. I see a lot of people complaining about how Ilana died, this week. In and of itself, Ilana's death was contrived and lame.

But her death was not a stand-alone thing. It is part of a huge story that has been carefully crafted and woven together since Season 1. They say history repeats itself, but on this island, this is true to the extreme. We are seeing the same situations and scenarios play out, over and over again. It mostly follows a pattern of Season 6 mirroring Season 1..... and 5 mirroring 2 .... and 4 mirroring 3. So it is kind of like an A-B-C-C-B-A pattern. Mirror image. (Hence the mirror references in the final season, to draw attention to the idea of mirror-imaging.) The show has always been about duality -- black & white, free will & destiny, the Losties and vs Others, Locke vs Ben, the beach vs the jungle/cave, Jacob vs the MIB, and on and on and on. Even that stupid novel manuscript "Bad Twin." What a goofy form of foreshadowing that was... from Season 1 to Season 6, that is! Duality is at the heart of the design of the whole show, and the mirror-image structure of the storytelling is a major tool to demonstrate this in both obvious and subtle ways.

I could go on for pages and pages of examples of this phenomenon, and this is actually my single favorite aspect of the storytelling on the show! And Ilana's death is YET another example of this pattern. Her death replicates the death of Arzt in Season 1, and this is intentional, part of a grander and more intricate pattern. Here are a few other quick examples:

Remember how Sayid was tied down on a table, electrical wires attached to him to shock him, in order to aquire information about him, in a dwelling place that is hidden within the jungle. This was carried out by someone who lost their child and doesn't know if they'll ever see their child again. This happened in Season 1 . . . and Season 6!

-------------------
SEASON 1 - While searching for answers to the island's mysteries, Jack is led by a mysterious man to find a cave, next to water. Inside is a black stone and a white stone, and various personal belongings, including a baseball bat. Alongside the cave is Charlie's guitar. Christian's body appears to have been removed. Jack almost fell off a cliff while searching for his father, and this led him to the cave. But, Locke reached out and took his hand and saved him.

SEASON 6 - While searching for answers to the island's mysteries, Sawyer is led by a mysterious man (FLocke) to a cave next to water. Inside is a black stone and a white stone, and various personal belongings, including a baseball glove. Just inside the cave is a lute (an ancient guitar). The name of Locke (who took Christian's place on Ajira 816) is removed, crossed out. Sawyer almost falls of a cliff while being taken to this cave, but FLocke reaches out and takes his hand and saves him.
------------------------

SEASON 1 - Sun, an Asian character who hides many secrets, shows her skill at healing with herbal remedies.

SEASON 6 - Dogen, an Asian character who hides many secrets, shows his skill in the use of herbal medicines.
------------------------

SEASON 1 - Sun can speak English, while Jin can't.

SEASON 6 - Jin can speak English, while Sun can't.
------------------------

SEASON 1 - Sayid is a man who is ashamed of his violent past, and of how certain authority figures pressed him into service to them, to hurt innocent people for his boss's gain. Sayid's leg is injured in the process of being caught in a trap. He is caught by the person who set the trap, Rousseau. He passes out, and she takes him to her hidden home, where she interrogates him about her child, which she says was kidnapped by the Others.

SEASON 6 - Jin is a man who is ashamed of his violent past, and of how certain authority figures pressed him into service to them, to hurt innocent people for his boss's gain. Jin's leg is injured when he is caught in a trap. He is caught by the person who set the trap, Claire. He passes out, and she takes him to her hidden home, where she interrogates someone else she captured along with Jin, asking him about her child, which she says was kidnapped by the Others.
----------------------

SEASON 1 - Hurley decides that everyone needs to know who each other is, so he starts a census, which leads him to getting the ship manifest with the list of all the survivors on it. Many of the names are crossed off, having been "eliminated" (by death) in the crash or immediately afterward. By going over the list, Hurley figures out that one of the survivors is not a survivor, but is really an outsider pretending to be one of them... someone who had already been on the island for a long time!

SEASON 6 - Hurley is used by Jacob to take Jack to the Lighthouse, where they find the mirrors and the giant dial with the names of all of the candidates written on it. Many of the names are crossed out, having been eliminated. Meanwhile, FLocke takes Sawyer (who in Season 1 had the manifest) to the cave by the sea, and also shows him the names of candidates. Many are crossed off. It is around this time that Sawyer also learns that Locke is not really Locke, at all. He is an outsider pretending to be a survivor... but is really someone who had already been on the island for a long time!
-----------------------

SEASON 2 - Desmond is waiting for his replacement, and uses a riddle as a password to determine whether a person is there to help with his mission. (What did one snowman say to the other snowman? "Smells like carrots.") Note: this riddle also appeared in Season 1, briefly, before Desmond ever appeared.

SEASON 5 - Ilana is searching for Jacob's replacement, and uses a riddle as a password to determine whether someone is involved in her mission. (What lies in the shadow of the statue? "He who will save us all.") Note: this riddle also appears in Season 6, thus mirroring Season 1, while 2 mirrors 5.
-----------------------

SEASON 2 - Jin appears to have been completely lost at sea, possibly dead, after the raft he's on is destroyed by an explosive. There is no sign of him. However, later, he is found on the island, having washed ashore there.

SEASON 5 - Jin appears to have been completely lost at sea, possibly dead, after the ship he's on is destroyed by an explosive. There is no sign of him. However, later, he is found on the island, having washed ashore there.
------------------

SEASON 2 - Sawyer tells Jin his arm is going to fall off.

SEASON 5 - Jin sees the French science team member's arm ripped off.
----------------

SEASON 2: The survivors explored a lot of the various hatches and locations of Dharma. Several of the survivors are taken prisoner by the Others and stay with them for a while in one of the Dharma locations. They are gone from the survivors camp for nearly 3 weeks.

SEASON 5: Some of the survivors went to the Dharma village, where they lived for 3 years among the Dharma people, going around to a lot of the Dharma hatches and locations.
----------------

SEASON 2: Sawyer gets possession of all of the guns and declares himself "sheriff"

SEASON 5: Sawyer is put in charge of the guns as he becomes the Dharma sheriff
--------------------

SEASON 2: Ben (aka Henry Gale) is tortured by Sayid and held captive by Jack and other survivors, but one of the survivors betrays the rest by risking everything to rescue Ben, even though he knows Ben is the leader of the Others and is responsible for many terrible things.

SEASON 5: A young Ben is shot by Sayid. Jack and others stand by and refuse to help Ben, but another survivor takes it upon herself to risk everything to rescue young Ben, even knowing he will be the leader of the Others and will be responsible for many terrible things.
------------------

SEASON 2: They found their way to the hatch. They argued over whether to do something (push the button) in the hatch. The season ended with a lot of arguing over whether to push the button, and finally they don't push the button, and BOOM!

SEASON 5: They found their way to (what would be) the hatch, where they argued over whether to use some modern technology (bomb) to counteract the island's dangerous "energy." And then "pushed the button" and blew it up (or more accurately, it imploded, just like the hatch did in Season 2).

(Note: "Pushing the button" is an old euphemism from the Cold War days that referred to dropping a nuclear weapon.)
-------------------------

SEASON 3 - Introduces mystery of the people from the Kahana

SEASON 4 - Reveals the truth about the people from the Kahana
-------------------

SEASON 3 - Juliet tries to conspire to kill Ben when he is helpless, but Jack refuses and saves him. Ben lives.

SEASON 4 - Sayid conspires to kill Ben when he is helpless (a child), Jack refuses to save him. Ben lives.
----------------

SEASON 3 - Ben shoots Locke and leaves him for dead in the mass grave. Locke tries to commit suicide, but fails.

SEASON 4 - Locke tries to commit suicide, but fails. Then, Ben kills Locke. (Reverse order from what happened in Season 3)
------------------

SEASON 3 - Hatch catastrophically implodes, causing Desmond to bounce around in time

SEASON 4 - Donkey Wheel breaks, catastrophically effecting the island and causing survivors to bounce around in time
......... [note: in Season 2, Locke lowers Kate down into the hatch flume, but something interrupts it and she disappears,
and then in Season 5, Locke is lowered into the well above the Donkey Wheel, but is interrupted and he falls and disappears]

. . .

One of my favorite (although more minor) examples is the "return" of Charlie's peanut butter, a couple episodes ago in Season 6. Remember Charlie's (imaginary) peanut butter, which he offered to Claire to try to lift her spirits in Season 1? Just recently, in the Smoking Club's camp, Sawyer came up next to Kate and offered her some "hot cocoa" to try to make her feel better. She asked where she found some hot cocoa on the island...? "I didn't," he said. "Just pretend." I had to laugh out loud at that one!

There are other examples I could cite. This is just a few, because the list is too long to post here, completely. But these show a clear and definite pattern. And Ilana's death is a part of that very intentional pattern. Yes, it's contrived... for a reason. Season 1 was giving us numerous pictures of what we would see in the final season! And Season 2 showed us many things we could expect to see in the next-to-last season, and so on! And I, for one, think it's awesome! On this island, history repeats itself... to the extreme. And no matter how much free will you try to exercise... this "curse" will catch up with you and make you a part of its mirror-image storytelling.
 

GuySmiley

Well-known member
So now that we are talking about the "Next on LOST" preview, did anyone catch that they were playing a song from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (the 1971 version with Gene Wilder) during the previews. I was expecting one of you to have a theory about that, since I can't come up with one on my own. Except that they threw that in just to see what crazy stuff people would come up with.
 

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
So Desmond says, "what's the use of being afraid" (paraphrase). And before Flocke throws him down the well I say out loud "because it helps you avoid things that can hurt you... like a smoke monster"

Either Desmond knows something and was OK with being thrown down the well, or the shock therapy worked.
 
So now that we are talking about the "Next on LOST" preview, did anyone catch that they were playing a song from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (the 1971 version with Gene Wilder) during the previews. I was expecting one of you to have a theory about that, since I can't come up with one on my own. Except that they threw that in just to see what crazy stuff people would come up with.
:chuckle: Yes, I did notice that. Of all the candidates, who will be the one that wins the island? Who is most like Charlie?

Jacob=Willy Wonka
MIB=Slugworth
Charlie=?

Answers?
 

chatmaggot

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
So now that we are talking about the "Next on LOST" preview, did anyone catch that they were playing a song from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (the 1971 version with Gene Wilder) during the previews. I was expecting one of you to have a theory about that, since I can't come up with one on my own. Except that they threw that in just to see what crazy stuff people would come up with.

I noticed it too and talked about it with my wife the following day. If I remember correctly the scene from Willy that that song is sung is when the people are on the boat trip and they are seeing all of these strange images and going faster and faster and....

All of a sudden they are sitting in the boat, all safe, right where they were supposed to be. Almost as if everything they had scene on the boat ride wasn't real.

That's what I got out if it.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The Graphite has done a great job showing parallels from season to season. And clearly, those kind the kind of juicy nuggets that the writers of the show want us to discover (it's part of the fun of the show). Last night I watched the season 2 premiere with some LOST "newbies" and I am becoming more and more fascinated with the "mother of all parallels":

Desmond is a parallel to Jacob.


I think by exploring this idea we can start to see the bigger picture of the show and we might begin to figure out Jacob's motivations and maybe even his origin on the island. We also might be able to figure out what will happen in the future with Jacob based on what's happening with Desmond in the present.

Lets look at the similarities/parallels

- Desmond was "voluntarily" trapped in the hatch saving the world.

- Jacob stays on the island "voluntarily" to save the world.​

Desmond was fooled into thinking that bad things would happen if he left the hatch. Is Jacob also being fooled into thinking that bad things will happen if he abandons the island?

- Desmond was in the hatch pushing the buttons 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 to save the world.

- Jacob pushed the "buttons" of 4 (Locke), 8 (Hugo), 15 (Sawyer), 16 (Sayid), 23 (Jack), 42 (Jin) in order to save the world.

Desmond pushed buttons on a computer in the hatch but Jacob pushed "buttons" (metaphorically) by manipulating our candidates past lives to get them to come to the island. (i.e., he pushed their "buttons" and got them to do his will)


- Desmond stayed in a hatch with a broken ladder and scratched out the days on the walls.

- Jacob lived in a cave with a broken ladder and scratched out the days on the walls.

- In the hatch Desmond waited for a replacement.

- On the Island Jacob is waiting for a replacement.

- Desmond seems to be able to be aware of "the big picture" and be conscious of both "timelines/realities", knowing that what happens in one reality will have an impact on the other reality.

- Jacob seems to be able to be aware of "the big picture" and be conscious of both "timelines/realities", knowing that what happens in one reality will have an impact on the other reality.

- Desmond at one point of his life lived in a holy temple (monastery) but was then sent out of the temple.

- Jacob at one point in his life lived in the temple on the island but left to live isolated in the cave (and later the foot of the statue).

- Desmond willingly (and very oddly I might add) allowed the smoke monster to kill him by pushing him down the well (therefore the smoke-monster thought he was dead).

- Jacob willingly (and very oddly I might add) allowed the smoke monster to kill him by having Ben stab him and then pushed him into the fire (therefore the smoke-monster thought he was dead).​

There are many more examples of these parallels such as Desmond touching Jack in the sideways reality when Desmond shows up on the "uncrashed" flight 815 and similarly Jacob touched Jack in the hospital when Jacks candy bar was stuck in the machine. Both times Jack just needed a "little push".

Now, if all of this is significant and Desmond is a figure of Jacob what can we learn about Jacob??


- Is Jacob (like Desmond) trying to get the approval from his father-in-law for being the island's protector? Maybe Jacob's father (in this analogy) is God?

- Desmond is going to make a sacrifice to save the world (so says Widmore), will that sacrifice be not getting to be with Penny? And does that mean that Jacob sacrificed his love to be the island's protector all these years?

- Desmond isn't dead at the bottom of the well after being pushed down there by smokie. Does that mean that Jacob isn't dead after being "murdered" by Ben/Smokie???

- Desmond pushed a fail-safe to protect the island from destruction under the hatch at the end of season 2. Was Jacob's fail-safe having our Losties detonate Jughead at the end of season 5??

- Desmond crash landed on the island and was coerced to become the world's protector, did Jacob crash land on the island and was he coerced into becoming the world's protector?​

I wonder what other parallels we can find between Desmond and Jacob and I wonder what that tells us about Jacob and about Desmond. Based on all of this I believe that Desmond is the replacement for Jacob and is already in fact taking on that role in the current episodes in season 6.

Thoughts??
 

The Graphite

New member
Indeed, very insightful, Knight! :thumb:

Desmond may very well be the hidden candidate, all along. You know, Jacob has long used numerous "candidates" as players to set up various things toward the ultimate goal. Some of the candidates were members of the Army who came to the island and brought Jughead with them. Some candidates were members of Dharma. Everyone has played a part, even though they weren't the final replacement for Jacob.

You're right about Desmond pushing the buttons for the numbers, while Jacob "pushed" the numbers in the form of the candidates. That is an amazing parallel. However, in the Lighthouse, we saw the number 108 and the name Wallace, which was not crossed out. 108 is, of course, the total of the other six most famous candidate numbers. Jacob told Hurley that Wallace was coming. Everyone assumed the next person we'd see coming to the island would be Wallace... and when Widmore showed up, they thought, if anyone is Wallace, that must be him.

Except that no one seems to consider that Widmore may have unwittingly brought Wallace to the island... in his locked room!

Who is Wallace? Well, who is the most famous Wallace in the world? I'll give you a clue. He's from Scotland, is granted the official title of "protector of Scotland" (which is obviously an island of ancient myth and mystery) and guess what else? That famous Wallace has a watchtower named after him. Not a massive tower... just 115 feet tall, and made of smooth stone. Just about like the one on the beach.

http://www.ayrshirescotland.com/towns/ayr.html
 
Top