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New member
Any post such as yours is open ground for anyone.
Any post such as yours is open ground for anyone.
way 2 go
Well-known member
did you address the truths of Luke 16: ?
Luk 16:19-31
Jesus reveals
already known truths such as
consciousness of the departed,
fire for the unrepentant to stand in,
a protected place with Abraham right next to the unpleasant place,
and he caps it off with
the place of torment is historical
made known to people by
Moses and the Prophets
and if you do not believe them
you will not believe one rising from the dead.
Timotheos you admittedly do not believe,
nor will you!
The parable of Lazarus is a parable. I already told you that. The parable doesn't even say the torment is eternal. The parable isn't even about the final punishment since in the parable the man's brothers were still living. As proof that God tortures people forever in hell, it completely fails.
And you still do not believe what John 3:16 and Romans 6:23 say. Let's discuss that.
Cross Reference
New member
You show me where in the Bible it says "Thou shalt not use a name in a parable".
The no names rule is just baloney.
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New member
[It ain't worth it, no return for the effort] < Ignore Button #2 "ON" >
Ignore anything you can't answer. It is your way. Or simply lie your way out of anything.
lifeisgood
New member
Tambora and I have asked B57 and I have asked Nanja:
Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?
Or
Do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?
However, I’m still waiting for an answer. Maybe you can provide the answer?
way 2 go
Well-known member
how about the truths it mentions
do agree with Jesus revealed truths
Luk 16:19-31
Jesus reveals
already known truths such as
consciousness of the departed,
fire for the unrepentant to stand in,
a protected place with Abraham right next to the unpleasant place,
and he caps it off with
the place of torment is historical
made known to people by
Moses and the Prophets
and if you do not believe them
you will not believe one rising from the dead.
Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
...
Luk 16:26**And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
...
Luk 16:28**For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
...
Luk 16:31**And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
The wages of sin is death.
Cross Reference
New member
Death has been explained to you and questions asked. Apparently, you have none.
For an honest person, not asking a question would imply he/she understands. For a dishonest peron, it nevertheless would mean the same as your 'kind reply' intimates your intention of retaining your, 'wilfully deceived' disposition.
I find it interesting you don't accuse Jesus of being of the "torment crowd" because of the way He uses the word "death" in conjunction with the word "torment" to express the severity of what He means when using the word "everlasting" to express their 'sameness'.
Even for the living is 'death' and 'torment' an ongoing 'soulish' experience in those outside of Christ that without repentence will it "everlastingly" continue after the body gives out. You should know that from the scriptures but can't recognize the inferences and by continuing to ignore the need to understand to be as leprosy to the self-willed individual.. But that is just another reason for the need to be born again for those yet in such ignorance; spiritual confusion by lying to themselves . . .and then to others..
Here is my question. Since the Bible says that the wages of sin is death, why don't you believe that the wages of sin is death?
You are not an honest person, since you lied about me. Remember?
Jesus is not part of the crowd that loves eternal torment (for other people). You are.
According to the Bible, the wages of sin is death and the soul who sins shall die. Since you disagree with what the Bible says, you are the one who is lying to yourself.
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New member
I apologize to any sincere Christian for anything deemed inappropiate from me to their God loving-fearing sensibilities, I have written on this forum... Goodbye to all other mentally challeged religous people who can't, who refuse to "connect the dots". Get saved, is the best advice I can give.
I will be over on the "Christian" only forum if anyone is interested. I will limit my replies to born again Christians trying to sort out the issues; those who are seeking God to know Him, should they ask of me. (John !7:3)
Bye
I will be over on the "Christian" only forum if anyone is interested. I will limit my replies to born again Christians trying to sort out the issues; those who are seeking God to know Him, should they ask of me. (John !7:3)
Bye
Don't leave, you've been here for 5 years
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New member
Longer than that but the powers that be have somehow, subtracted 'about' 5 years off my account.
John 7:5
"For not even his brothers believed in him."
Good luck in your mission to get others to reject the word of God along with you!
Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Some thoughts for on the way out.............
Some thoughts for on the way out.............
Don't forget to consider Love's will here
ECT is deplorable, nonsensical and insane. The view of 'conditional immortality' or 'universal reconciliation' offers a more tenable eschatology from a 'biblical' perspective (any and all views can use 'scripture' to support their views, especially with the distortion and variableness with translation/interpretation issues). I explore and research outside of just a limited Bible format, since resources within Spiritualism, modern day psychical research, and consciousness studies add more to our knowledge when considering the Afterlife, etc.
Then we have sound universal laws/principles such as the law of compensation (karma) where all words, thoughts, actions have their own consequences and every soul reaps what it sows, no matter what realm or dimension of existence, here and in the afterworld. So these 'laws of God' hold, and they guide along the progressive evolution of all sentient beings. "God (cosmic law and all principles) are not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows that also shall he reap",...so no one suffers or is rewarded beyond what their choices and actions merit or bring into consequence, measure for measure, fairly, justly, and all this takes place within divine providence, Love willing the highest good for all. Any system of 'endless unending torment and suffering' (TO NO END) is antithetical to love, contrary to divine will.
So, ECT is a most satanic doctrine since it 'hinders' and 'obstructs' sentient beings from fulfilling their purpose of being, having the opportunity of repentance and purification, and insists 'God' has no other divine way or wisdom to relieve or save these suffering souls, but to KEEP them in such a state forever. This is pure insanity. It defies all laws of logic and life.
In 'conditional immortality', it is held that sin or iniquity fully embraced can have the ultimate consequence of a final 'death' to a soul, that soul is disintegrated, the personality is terminated, it is no more a conscious living entity. It has undergone the 'second death' from which there is no resurrection. Death is a state of non-existence, disintegration, negation in this sense. Other religious traditions and Spiritualism in general sees souls existing beyond mortal flesh and given opportunities for progress in the spirit worlds or in some process of reincarnation,....so you certainly don't have a monopoly on universal truth necessarily (especially in such a cruel teaching), but a preferred interpretation or doctrinal perspective found within a particular religious tradition.
While the biblical options of life or death, seem to simplistically settle the score of possibilities, there is probably more, but in the meantime John 3:16 holds for most
Some thoughts for on the way out.............
Don't forget to consider Love's will here
ECT is deplorable, nonsensical and insane. The view of 'conditional immortality' or 'universal reconciliation' offers a more tenable eschatology from a 'biblical' perspective (any and all views can use 'scripture' to support their views, especially with the distortion and variableness with translation/interpretation issues). I explore and research outside of just a limited Bible format, since resources within Spiritualism, modern day psychical research, and consciousness studies add more to our knowledge when considering the Afterlife, etc.
Then we have sound universal laws/principles such as the law of compensation (karma) where all words, thoughts, actions have their own consequences and every soul reaps what it sows, no matter what realm or dimension of existence, here and in the afterworld. So these 'laws of God' hold, and they guide along the progressive evolution of all sentient beings. "God (cosmic law and all principles) are not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows that also shall he reap",...so no one suffers or is rewarded beyond what their choices and actions merit or bring into consequence, measure for measure, fairly, justly, and all this takes place within divine providence, Love willing the highest good for all. Any system of 'endless unending torment and suffering' (TO NO END) is antithetical to love, contrary to divine will.
So, ECT is a most satanic doctrine since it 'hinders' and 'obstructs' sentient beings from fulfilling their purpose of being, having the opportunity of repentance and purification, and insists 'God' has no other divine way or wisdom to relieve or save these suffering souls, but to KEEP them in such a state forever. This is pure insanity. It defies all laws of logic and life.
In 'conditional immortality', it is held that sin or iniquity fully embraced can have the ultimate consequence of a final 'death' to a soul, that soul is disintegrated, the personality is terminated, it is no more a conscious living entity. It has undergone the 'second death' from which there is no resurrection. Death is a state of non-existence, disintegration, negation in this sense. Other religious traditions and Spiritualism in general sees souls existing beyond mortal flesh and given opportunities for progress in the spirit worlds or in some process of reincarnation,....so you certainly don't have a monopoly on universal truth necessarily (especially in such a cruel teaching), but a preferred interpretation or doctrinal perspective found within a particular religious tradition.
While the biblical options of life or death, seem to simplistically settle the score of possibilities, there is probably more, but in the meantime John 3:16 holds for most
way 2 go
Well-known member
yup Jesus told us the truth the rich man received his wages
Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
I don't understand why you are using a parable to prove that Romans 6:23 is not true. Torment is not death. Death is not torment. The wages of sin is death, not torment. Jesus agrees with Romans 6:23 because He said in Luke 13:3 "Unless you repent, you will likewise perish."
I don't understand why you insist on arguing against what the Bible says. John 3:16 sums up the gospel message very well. Whoever accepts Jesus Christ will inherit eternal life and whoever rejects Jesus Christ will perish. Why don't you give up your false idea of eternal torture in hell and accept what Jesus Christ says?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
What's sick is that you think it's "worth it" if some of your own children rot away in "hell" as long as some of them make it to "Heaven". That's not far removed from certain hyper Calvinists who think they'd rejoice in the 'righteousness' of their own children's suffering if they weren't part of the elect...