John Calvin said this....

G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
j4jesus09 said:
Yes sir. My question is a there difference between knowing and understanding? Do you think that Adam and Eve understood with no variation the commandment from God?
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Adam was created with the ability to communicate.
God brought the animals to Adam to see what he would name them.
Adam had "Knowledge" that these were animals. God spoke
with Adam and Adam "understood" what was expected of him.

Examples:
1) Name the animals.
2) Don't eat of one particular tree.
 
j4jesus09

j4jesus09

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Adam was created with the ability to communicate.
God brought the animals to Adam to see what he would name them.
Adam had "Knowledge" that these were animals. God spoke
with Adam and Adam "understood" what was expected of him.

Examples:
1) Name the animals.
2) Don't eat of one particular tree.
Click to expand...

Yes, something just doesn't add up GM. If he truly understood he wouldn't have done it. I mean what keeps us from not doing things against God today. I think that's the problem we have today. God has to give us wisdom and understanding and much more or we would be just like Adam and Eve continuously. We must have something more to do right. For some reason God didn't come in and save Adam. He had every opportunity to come in and say NO ADAM don't do it. But He didn't. He wouldn't have stopped Adams freewill for He could see Adam was going to make the wrong choice. He chose to let Adam go through with it. Therefore i see some irony there.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
j4jesus09 said:
Yes, something just doesn't add up GM. If he truly understood he wouldn't have done it. I mean what keeps us from not doing things against God today. I think that's the problem we have today. God has to give us wisdom and understanding and much more or we would be just like Adam and Eve continuously. We must have something more to do right. For some reason God didn't come in and save Adam. He had every opportunity to come in and say NO ADAM don't do it. But He didn't. He wouldn't have stopped Adams freewill for He could see Adam was going to make the wrong choice. He chose to let Adam go through with it. Therefore i see some irony there.
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That's where things become subjective. God set up the world the
way He wanted things to be. He choose to create man with a
"Free-will choice." Evidently, He didn't want "Robot/puppets"
that would just do whatever He wanted them to do. He created
a world where, mankind could, "choose" what they wanted to do,
in any given situation. There have been times when He has
intervened in the world. We're living in a time known as, "The
Dispensation of Grace." We don't see God intervening, like He
did in the Old Testament times.

Basically, man chooses his own destiny. The "True Gospel" is
being preached all over the world, people are hearing it and
choosing to place their faith in Christ or reject Him. God desires
to have ALL of mankind to come to Christ. However, man has
free-will choice. God doesn't "force" anyone to respond to His
Gospel.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
HisServant said:
If he had free will, then God made a rock so large he couldn't move it.

Hardly.

Also if you take that route, you end up with God still being responsible for everything Satan has/is doing since God created him in the first place.

Does your God make mistakes?
Click to expand...

You simply don't have a good understanding of the character and intent of the God of the Bible.
You're a "dyed in the wool" Hyper-Calvinist who believes God is responsibly for all the sin in our
world.
 
H

HisServant

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
That's where things become subjective. God set up the world the
way He wanted things to be. He choose to create man with a
"Free-will choice." Evidently, He didn't want "Robot/puppets"
that would just do whatever He wanted them to do. He created
a world where, mankind could, "choose" what they wanted to do,
in any given situation. There have been times when He has
intervened in the world. We're living in a time known as, "The
Dispensation of Grace." We don't see God intervening, like He
did in the Old Testament times.

Basically, man chooses his own destiny. The "True Gospel" is
being preached all over the world, people are hearing it and
choosing to place their faith in Christ or reject Him. God desires
to have ALL of mankind to come to Christ. However, man has
free-will choice. God doesn't "force" anyone to respond to His
Gospel.
Click to expand...

So you think God is hands-off now in your mythical 'Dispensation of Grace'.
 
H

HisServant

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Ephesians 3:2 states: "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:"

Mythical? Ask the Apostle Paul if it's mythical?
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That was a stewardship given to Paul... it doesn't denote a time period or age... it was a task given specifically to Paul. It says that right in that verse you quoted in the part you decided not to emphasize in bold lettering.... it all goes together.

I would have thought you would have been smart enough to know that by now.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Cedarbay said:
GM - what is a hyper-Calvinist?
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For one thing, they believe that God creates ALL, destruction, rape,
murder, evil, debauchery, molestation, lying, etc, etc, etc. They also
buy into the idea that God chooses the Elect to go to Heaven and all
others to go into eternal damnation. It's an evil belief system where
God gets the blame for everything, because it's His supposed will.
 
j4jesus09

j4jesus09

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
That's where things become subjective. God set up the world the
way He wanted things to be. He choose to create man with a
"Free-will choice." Evidently, He didn't want "Robot/puppets"
that would just do whatever He wanted them to do. He created
a world where, mankind could, "choose" what they wanted to do,
in any given situation. There have been times when He has
intervened in the world. We're living in a time known as, "The
Dispensation of Grace." We don't see God intervening, like He
did in the Old Testament times.

Basically, man chooses his own destiny. The "True Gospel" is
being preached all over the world, people are hearing it and
choosing to place their faith in Christ or reject Him. God desires
to have ALL of mankind to come to Christ. However, man has
free-will choice. God doesn't "force" anyone to respond to His
Gospel.
Click to expand...

I do think God forces us my brother. But in such a wise way not comparable to the way carnal man forces or thinks about force. He does it through love, mercy, justice, grace, etc though. He forces our will to conform to His will for life or there is the other way out, you can die for sin. He is the most loving, smartest, wisest, creative, mighty, being that ever existed and will exist. I think a better term than force would be
"wins." He wins us to him. Every true believer should have had some type of Saul of Tarsus moment. It may not have been as extreme as Saul but we should have had that moment where you could see God for the first time. That is the conversion. Then life after that is the santification. God forced me to conversion. The thing sometimes I wish I could do my own thing but He just convicts me, the holy spirit. So I can't see man without the very help of God believing the gospel. God takes one down a Saul of Taurus path. That's destiny to me for each person coming into the faith. But your point has been considered.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
j4jesus09 said:
I do think God forces us my brother. But in such a wise way not comparable to the way carnal man forces or thinks about force. He does it through love, mercy, justice, grace, etc though. He forces our will to conform to His will for life or there is the other way out, you can die for sin. He is the most loving, smartest, wisest, creative, mighty, being that ever existed and will exist. I think a better term than force would be
"wins." He wins us to him. Every true believer should have had some type of Saul of Tarsus moment. It may not have been as extreme as Saul but we should have had that moment where you could see God for the first time. That is the conversion. Then life after that is the santification. God forced me to conversion. The thing sometimes I wish I could do my own thing but He just convicts me, the holy spirit. So I can't see man without the very help of God believing the gospel. God takes one down a Saul of Taurus path. That's destiny to me for each person coming into the faith. But your point has been considered.
Click to expand...

I respect your civility, my friend. You can see how "HisServant" acts.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
This is how the "Grace Gospel" came into my life: In 1962 I was twelve
year's old and my family was staying at a cheap motel down in Anaheim
California. The smog back then was so thick you could feel it going down
into your lungs every time you drew a breath. The heat was unbearable.
(no air-conditioning) My family wasn't religious. We went to church on
Easter and perhaps Christmas. The church we'd go to didn't matter. My
Dad was a Methodist (non-active) my Mom was a Lutheran (non-active)

It was a particularly hot day at that motel and I came to my Mom and
asked; "Are we going to Hell?" A strange question for a child of twelve
who grew up non-religious? She said; "Probably!" I just accepted that
and went on with my day. Well, about a week later we moved into an
apartment in Garden Grove California. My Sister became friends with
a neighbor girl and her Father happened to be an Assistant Pastor of
a non-denominational, Christ centered, Bible believing Church. Their
family became friends with our family and shared the Gospel with us.
Subsequently, my Mom, Dad, Sister, and myself placed our faith in
Christ as our Savior. It's now been about fifty three years later and
my Mom, and Dad went to be with the Lord and my Sister and I are
still a "Child of God."

My Mom said in 1962, that we would probably go to Hell. I believe God
heard that twelve year old's (me) Question; "Are we going to Hell?," and
He answered that question, one week later. The answer was, "No."
 
Cedarbay

Cedarbay

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
For one thing, they believe that God creates ALL, destruction, rape,
murder, evil, debauchery, molestation, lying, etc, etc, etc. They also
buy into the idea that God chooses the Elect to go to Heaven and all
others to go into eternal damnation. It's an evil belief system where
God gets the blame for everything, because it's His supposed will.
Click to expand...
This is not the historic definition of hyper-Calvinism.

A good way to find a true hyper-Calvinist would be to ask them this question:

"Do you think it necessary to preach the gospel to all men without exception?'
 
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