John Calvin said this....

[j4jesus09]

You cannot take an isolated point in time where God, "in order to show
His Glorious power and Glory," "Hardened Pharaoh's heart." Pharaoh
himself had already hardened his own heart. Read up on the background
of when these things occurred and why.

This occasion is NOT enough to conclude that, God creates ALL evil, sin,
and debauchery. Hyper-Calvinists carry that idea, way too far.

Truthfully how evil could have been created is a tough thought to digest? One can't put it on God. But if the devil created evil then where did he conjure the thought from. In himself. Then God made us way more creative then we understand. God is not totally the only creator of all things for evil was a new creation created by the devil? Just thoughts.

 

[j4jesus09]

Rationally speaking, if God creates ALL sin and it's His will to MAKE men
commit heinous crimes against Him and the world about Him, what part
does the Devil play in your belief system?

These are great questions I ponder on in the Lord of course. Maybe God orchestrated it that way so he can have mercy on us?? :think:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yet Scripture states that God is in control of all the governments of the world and he has put them in power. ISIS exists because God wants it to.... think on that.

You have a very distorted view of the character and intent of the God
of the Bible. You, B57, and Nanja seem to see a God who creates evil,
sin, etc. You ignore God's righteousness, justice, goodness, mercy,
logic/reason, etc. You have a "one sided" view of God,

 

[HisServant]

You cannot take an isolated point in time where God, "in order to show
His Glorious power and Glory," "Hardened Pharaoh's heart." Pharaoh
himself had already hardened his own heart. Read up on the background
of when these things occurred and why.

This occasion is NOT enough to conclude that, God creates ALL evil, sin,
and debauchery. Hyper-Calvinists carry that idea, way too far.

It's not isolated.... for example, if you are a dispensationalist, then you believe that God is currently hardening all of the Jews hearts against him.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

These are great questions I ponder on in the Lord of course. Maybe God orchestrated it that way so he can have mercy on us?? :think:

No. I don't believe God creates sin, in order to show mercy to the sinner.
God didn't create Adam and Eve in order to have them sin.

God gave them a "Free-will choice" to sin or not to sin. They choose
to sin. God didn't will them to sin.

 

[j4jesus09]

No. I don't believe God creates sin, in order to show mercy to the sinner.
God didn't create Adam and Eve in order to have them sin.

God gave them a "Free-will choice" to sin or not to sin. They choose
to sin. God didn't will them to sin.

I'm with you on that one. I don't believe God created sin but where did the mindset of sin come from? How could it be conceived from nothing? Freewill is a choice to do or not to do based off what you know. Where would the decision not to do come from? If all you know is truth or knowledge where did the opposite come from? There is a manufacturer problem I can't understand. Problem is with me undoubtedly.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It's not isolated.... for example, if you are a dispensationalist, then you believe that God is currently hardening all of the Jews hearts against him.

Do you believe that it's God's will for man to commit all forms of sin?
God has put a "veil over the Jews eyes. He hasn't "hardened" their
hearts. There are Jews who have/will come to a saving knowledge of
Jesus Christ, as Savior. They hear the "true" Gospel and place their
faith.

 

[HisServant]

Do you believe that it's God's will for man to commit all forms of sin?
God has put a "veil over the Jews eyes. He hasn't "hardened" their
hearts. There are Jews who have/will come to a saving knowledge of
Jesus Christ, as Savior. They hear the "true" Gospel and place their
faith.

My view is that God permits it... therefore it is his will.

It cannot be any other way for someone that is omnipotent and omnipresent.

 

[Cedarbay]

"Total Depravity" is the heart of Reformed doctrine.

Anyone interested can view the Canons of Dordt here:

http://www.reformed.org/documents/i...w.reformed.org/documents/canons_of_dordt.html

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I'm with you on that one. I don't believe God created sin but where did the mindset of sin come from? How could it be conceived from nothing? Freewill is a choice to do or not to do based off what you know. Where would the decision not to do come from? If all you know is truth or knowledge where did the opposite come from? There is a manufacturer problem I can't understand. Problem is with me undoubtedly.

Satan was the first sinner. Eve was deceived by Satan
and Adam sinned, because God told him not to eat of
that tree, and Adam choose to sin.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You might say, initial sin came from Satan's rebellion against God. God
cast Satan out of Heaven and he was placed on earth. Satan was the
causative effect of Adam's eventual choice to sin.

 

[Cedarbay]

I'm with you on that one. I don't believe God created sin but where did the mindset of sin come from? How could it be conceived from nothing? Freewill is a choice to do or not to do based off what you know. Where would the decision not to do come from? If all you know is truth or knowledge where did the opposite come from? There is a manufacturer problem I can't understand. Problem is with me undoubtedly.

The first part of the Heidelberg Catechism entitled, "The Misery of Man", may give you further help with these questions.


http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html

 

[HisServant]

You might say, initial sin came from Satan's rebellion against God. God
cast Satan out of Heaven and he was placed on earth. Satan was the
causative effect of Adam's eventual choice to sin.

God created Satan.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

My view is that God permits it... therefore it is his will.

It cannot be any other way for someone that is omnipotent and omnipresent.

It's not God's will that man sins. Mankind has "Freewill choice"
in everything he does. If he wants to steal, he steals, if he wants
to lie, he lies, etc. God desires that men come to a saving knowledge
of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Because we're allowed to get drunk in a bar, doesn't mean it's law
enforcement's will that we get drunk. If we get in our car and drive,
there are consequences. If we commit sin, there are consequences.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

God created Satan.

Satan "choose" to rebel against God, because he had free-will.
Your point?

 

[j4jesus09]

Satan was the first sinner. Eve was deceived by Satan
and Adam sinned, because God told him not to eat of
that tree, and Adam choose to sin.

This goes against pure wisdom though. True Wisdom would never. Satan didn't have wisdom or particularly wisdom that says to one I better not do that! Isn't wisdom ultimately from God? So when you do 1+1 is 2, it does point to God not setting us up to fail, but setting up the story of a lifetime through Christ with God being the author and we had to fail in retrospect. Since we now have the whole holy book to read and we see the end, doesnt that show God being better than ever since He didn't have to do this create us to know Him? These are honest questions that people don't tend to consider. I am saved by His grace not in knowing all the answers.

Jeremiah 18:4

 

[j4jesus09]

The first part of the Heidelberg Catechism entitled, "The Misery of Man", may give you further help with these questions.


http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html

Will read, thanks.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

This goes against pure wisdom though. True Wisdom would never. Satan didn't have wisdom or particularly wisdom that says to one I better not do that! Isn't wisdom ultimately from God? So when you do 1+1 is 2, it does point to God not setting us up to fail, but setting up the story of a lifetime through Christ with God being the author and we had to fail in retrospect. Since we now have the whole holy book to read and we see the end, doesnt that show God being better than ever since He didn't have to do this create us to know Him? These are honest questions that people don't tend to consider. I am saved by His grace not in knowing answer.

Jeremiah 18:4

Could you simplify your question? I don't quite understand what you're getting at?

 

[j4jesus09]

Could you simplify your question? I don't quite understand what you're getting at?

Yes sir. My question is a there difference between knowing and understanding? Do you think that Adam and Eve understood with no variation the commandment from God?

 

[HisServant]

Satan "choose" to rebel against God, because he had free-will.
Your point?

If he had free will, then God made a rock so large he couldn't move it.

Hardly.

Also if you take that route, you end up with God still being responsible for everything Satan has/is doing since God created him in the first place.

Does your God make mistakes?