Jewed

[CherubRam]

This statement spells Replacement Theology and you missed to quote Paul. According to Genesis 17:13, circumcision is the token of the Abrahamic Covenant to be in effect as long as there is a Jew on the face of the earth. This attitude of Paul to discard circumcision of the flesh is typical of the Hellenistic Jews who ganged up with the Greeks to promote Replacement Theology and to pay homage to the abomination of desolation.

Forever, is forever, unless there should come a change.
The Old Covenant has been revoked. That means that circumcision is no longer required. The old priesthood has been replaced. Yahwah has stopped the festivals and sin sacrifices.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

 

[Daniel1611]

This statement spells Replacement Theology and you missed to quote Paul. According to Genesis 17:13, circumcision is the token of the Abrahamic Covenant to be in effect as long as there is a Jew on the face of the earth. This attitude of Paul to discard circumcision of the flesh is typical of the Hellenistic Jews who ganged up with the Greeks to promote Replacement Theology and to pay homage to the abomination of desolation.

I don't believe in Replacement Theology. I don't believe there is anything to replace. God's people have always been those who believe on Him. In OT times, anyone who believed in the God of Jacob was part of Israel, and anyone who didn't was not. "Jew" was never a race of people. Descendants of Abraham who were not circumcised in OT times we not part of the covenant, and people who didn't directly descend from Abraham were part of Israel if they believed in the God of Israel. When Jesus came to this earth, God's people believed on Him. The people who didn't, and who don't today are not God's people. Therefore, there is nothing to "replace." From Genesis to Revelation, those who believe in the Lord are His people and those who don't are not. One can run around claiming to be a "Jew" all they want, but if they don't believe on Jesus Christ they are condemned.

 

[kayaker]

I'm going to cut to the chase again here:

You're basic thesis is that the local religious leaders of Jerusalem
and the organized temple worship were Shelanite Jews,
racial opponents of the true Messiah, who was a Pharezite Jew.

You've repeated the claim in this post and others several times,
that it was the Shelanite Jews who plotted and murdered Christ.

Well I'm calling BS on that for several reasons.

To begin with, Nazaroo... there are Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, and Israelite Jews (by and large). You've not been listening if you've not read that I proffer the Shelanites are predominately within the Sephardic group, today. You simply make false report of my positions, and argue with yourself, LOL! Well... in that regard... you win! You entirely crack me up, ROFLOL! When you cut to the chasing your tail...

With all due respect Nazaroo, I would like the record to note you’ve yet to provide any Scripture discounting same in this thesis. At the risk of diverging, I offer the following pearls for the benefit of the audience:

(1) There is no unambiguous evidence in OT or NT of a special sub-tribe of Shelanite Jews who took over control of the temple institution. The temple was in the hands of Ezra at the start, and appears to have had an unbroken lineage of legitimate (racially) Jews running it until the time of Jesus, excepting the Greek skirmishs with Alexander, and the Roman appointed Herodian interference.

While admiring your broad studies Nazaroo, in this Scripturally illustrated thesis Jesus unveiled the “truth” (John 8:31, 32) imbedded within the otherwise ancestrally ambiguous title, “Jew.” John the Baptist began this distinction in Luke 3:2, 4, 7, 8, 9. In John 8:39 KJV, Jesus affirmed Moses’ distinction of Genesis 25:4. Stephen affirmed Jesus’ distinction in Acts 7:52 (Mat 23:29, 30, 31, Mat 23:32, Mat 23:33, 34, 35). This “Jewish” distinction of Rev 2:9, 3:9 was preceded by Apostle Paul in Romans 9:6, 7, 8, 9. The evidence is subtly available in the Good Book, Nazaroo.

(2) There is no unambiguous evidence in OT prophecy or NT narrative that a special sub-tribe of Shelanite Jews planned and carried out the frame-up and execution of Jesus.

Unless one can perceive the elusive shadow (“we be Abrahams’ seed”) of the synagogue of Satan (Rev 2:9, 3:9) from the Scriptures I brought forward, then I’m currently unaware of another textual manner to perceive ‘their’ identity. Who do you Scripturally document as THE ancestor(s) to those the ‘hypocrite’ “Jews” “of the synagogue of Satan” in Rev 2:9, 3:9?

(3) The OT Scriptures were freely quoted by Jesus and Apostles as authoritative.

I think I’ve already addressed your astute point to some extent, Nazaroo. Jesus was sequestered from speaking a name in condemnation invoking Judgment (John 8:15, 26, Matthew 24:36). This explicit distinction was the temptation of Christ in John 8:4, 5, 6 referring to Leviticus 20:10 KJV. She was caught in the act, correct? Then where’s the dude? Jesus was tempted to summon the dude, according to Lev 20:10, invoking Judgment. That’s why He doodled names of each of her accusers in the dirt who tangoed with this temple harlot. Jesus’ temptation (John 8:5, 6) was followed by His words in John 8:15 KJV reflected also in John 8:26 KJV. What did Jesus mean when He told ‘them’ “…he that sent me is true”? Jesus couldn’t specifically condemn an individual (including ancestral titles) without invoking Judgment (Matthew 24:36 KJV). Therefore, Jesus could not specifically identify His accusers with an ancestral title like Canaanites or Shelanites, so He used devices like pronouns (John 8:44 KJV) and non-ancestral titles like scribes and Pharisees.

(4) The NT Scriptures show that Jesus made no special distinction between subclasses, sub-tribes or families of Jews or Israelites in dealing with them.

Instead Jesus referred to "Jews" en masse, and self-identified as one,
and not as a special sub-tribe or family. He called His own people "Jews"
(allowing for translation into modern English) and he self-identified as a "Jew"
(cf. Samaritan Woman in John).

A Scriptural coordinate or two would help me understand your point. Once again, Jesus was an ancestrally authentic Pharzite Jew according to Matthew 1:3 KJV. Again, Jesus could not speak a name or ancestral title in condemnation (John 8:15 KJV). Although not specific to condemnation, evidence of Jesus’ preserved divine knowledge regarding ‘Jewish’ distinction is in fact found in Rev 2:9, 3:9. Try taking another glance at Luke 12:49 KJV, Luke 12:50 KJV, Luke 12:51, 52, 53. Jesus was all into family distinction… He simply couldn’t be specific as to individual (or family title) without invoking Judgment. On one hand, I cannot say Jesus was a Judahite Jew, submitting to ancestral maternal ambiguity, because Judah had a Canaanite wife. On the other hand, I can say Jesus was a Judahite Jew appreciating Ezra excluded Shelah (since God slew his two older brother) and sons from the tribe of Judah in 1Chronicles 4:1. When one appreciates Ezra’s distinction excluded Shelah and sons from the tribe of Judah, which I proffer Jesus could only suggest in Rev 2:9, 3:9, only then can I accept Jesus being an Israelite Judahite Jew, as was Paul an Israelite Benjamite Jew.

According to Matthew 1:3 KJV, Jesus was a ‘Jew’ of the tribe of Judah (son of Jacob-Israel) via Tamar’s son, Pharez. Apostle Paul was a Benjamite Jew, son of Jacob-Israel (Acts 21:39 KJV, Phillipians 3:5 KJV). Contrast that ancestral distinction with Jesus’ detractors’ maternally ambiguous claim: “we be Abraham’s seed” (John 8:33 KJV). Does their very claim not evoke curiosity? Jesus was sent to the lost sheep, and Paul was a lost sheep before Damascus. I’m curious what rendering of Mosaic Law Paul defected from? I proffer Paul defected from the Shelanite replacement theology that Messiah could only be a descendant of Judah via a legal marriage, namely to his Canaanite wife.

(5) Paul makes no distinction between sub-tribes of "Jew". In fact, he self-identifies as a Benjaminite and a Jew, in the "Israelite" sense.

We agree with Paul’s aforementioned self-identity: an Israelite Benjamite Jew. I proffer Paul was in fact making an “Israelite” Jewish distinction, of the tribe of Benjamin. Furthermore, in Romans 9:6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Paul noted the title “Israel”, and ‘seed of Abraham’ had ancestral distinction Jesus, with the power to judge, could only outline in Rev 2:9, 3:9 among other places. I might ask, were all descendants of Abraham “Jews”? Ezra delineated “The sons of Shelah the son of Judah…“ (1Chronicles 4:21, 22) were NOT of the ‘tribe’ of Judah in 1Chronicles 4:1. Wonder what “ancient things” Ezra was alluding to in v. 22 (Genesis 6:4 KJV)? In 1Chronicles 4:1, the tribe of Judah was maintained via his eldest twin son Pharez via Tamar, even though Shelah was the elder son of Judah and his wife (Gen 38:1, 2).

(6) Most importantly, the NT Gospels DON'T leave out the identifiable parties within Judaea, Judaism, the 2nd Temple authority, or diaspora. All identifiable parties are named and described, including:
Pharisees, Sadducees (Zadokites), Herodians, Nazarenes,
Zealots, Sicarii, Galileans, Samaritans,Greeks (Greek speaking Jews of the diaspora), EXCEPT ONE PARTY: the Essenes.
The "Shelanite Jews" are never identified.

Indeed Nazaroo, congratulations! I do find it interesting that you emphasize the Essenes, the esoteric Children of the light, the Nazarenes, correct, Nazaroo? The stark Biblical illumination of the Shelanites in Jesus’ day would have been contrary to Almighty God’s inspiration of His Holy Word (Gen 4:15, 24, John 8:15, 26, Matthew 24:36). God made a particular promise to Cain in Genesis 4:15 KJV, and His promise was maintained in His inspired Book, OT + NT. The mark of Cain was simply and merely anonymity (think maternal ambiguity) surrounding Cain’s paternity, longevity, death (Genesis 4:23 KJV), and descendants (beyond Lamech’s children, Genesis 4:19, 20, 21, 22) in His Word. This absence hints at the mark of Cain: anonymity. Hence: Who’s ya mamma, “Abraham’s seed”?

(7) The religious leaders, Sanhedrin, Jerusalemites, and other power groups are all identified by name, and easily connected to historical realities noted in other sources like Josephus, Tacitus, and archaeological evidence.

The Shelanites pleaded the fifth (anonymity, Gen 4:15) respectfully… “we be Abraham’s seed” (John 8:33 KJV) veiled behind the ambiguity of the title, “Jew.” According to Moses, Abraham’s seed via Keturah were NOT even Hebrews (Genesis 25:4). Her Canaanite son Shuah’s unnamed daughter hooked-up with Judah, prophesied progenitor of Messiah (Isaiah 65:9)… Shelah was neither Hebrew, nor an ancestrally intact ‘Jew.’ Can you at least suspect a little half-sibling rivalry prophesied in Genesis 3:15?

(8) If there was a significant force, even a SECRET one, namely
the "Shelanite Jews" who controled the Temple and targeted Jesus,
then the Apostles and Paul would not have held the known and identifiable Jewish leaders like the Sanhedrin, and the people at large including annual visiting "Jews" from all parts of the Roman Empire RESPONSIBLE for the bad decision-making in Jesus' death. They would have openly and plainly pointed out the Shelanite Jews as the ones responsible.

You are quite a deep thinker, Nazaroo! That’s why ‘they’ instigated the crucifixion, stoned Stephen, and flogged the apostles... Early in their ministries, the apostles were OT illiterate (Acts 4:13, 20), which likely saved their lives being unable to make this OT Shelanite maternal distinction. One problem with said unveiling of the Shelanites was it resulted in crucifixion, beheading (JTB), even being stoned (Stephen).

(9) The N.T. DOES identify sectarianism and elitism, in the form of rivalries between Pharisee and Sadducees, Galileans and Judaeans,
Herodians and Roman authorities, and even reveals secret plots and
private alliances, such as Queen Herodias' part in John the baptist's murder, the negotiations between Pilate and Jewish authorities etc.
But no mention of "Shelanite Jews" plotting behind the scenes is mentioned.

With sincere respect to your studies, I cannot knowledgeably address all of these groups you identify. The true Israelite Pharisees, as was Paul, had been infiltrated (for the lack of a better word) via mixing ancestry with the circumcised Shelanites (John 18:13 KJV) as noted happening before the days of Ezra 9:1, 2, 7. I proffer the Shelanites who’d ‘gotten religion’ (believing in the resurrection) becoming circumcised impostor Pharisees had a common ancestor with the Sadducees, namely Shelah, “Abraham’s seed.” Note Paul’s astute posture in Acts 23:6, 7, 8, 9. Since you are a global Jewish defender (I defend Israelite Jews, only), I thought you might appreciate this “Jewish” site to knock the dust off my unfamiliarity:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/sadducees_pharisees_essenes.html

I appreciate your bringing forward Herod’s sister-in-law who ‘slept’ her way into royalty, if this rings any bells like Abraham’s second wife, and Judah’s Canaanitess wife. John the Baptist was a second Ezra in my mind. As evidenced in Luke 3:2, 7, 8, 9, I proffer JTB knew Queen Herodias was another ‘daughter’ of Keturah, the great harlot. JTB would have spilled the entire can of beans to Herod had JTB’s mission been completed. But, she prostituted her daughter, Herod’s niece, thwarting JTB’s mission to also bring this corruption to light. I think ‘they’ killed JTB’s father, too (Matthew 23:35 KJV). Had the snuff queen not eliminated JTB, she risked another Ezra 10:2, 3 when Herod heard JTB rehearse the humbling Prayer of Ezra 9:5-15.

(10) Time and again Jesus confronts "the Jews" without making sub-tribal distinctions or even inter-tribal distinctions, say between priests (Kohens) and other tribes. Instead Jesus concentrates on PROFESSIONS, such as Scribe, Priest, Lawyer, Soldier, Sheperd, fisherman, tax-collector, or bigger tribal divisions such as "Samaritan" or "Roman". No evidence of any concern with a 'sub-tribe' or family-run mafia is ever suggested by Jesus. And He KNEW them.

Yours is a marvelous testimony, Nazaroo! Such testifies to the temptation of Jesus to summon the dude hooked-up with the woman caught in the act in John 8 (Leviticus 20:10). Time and time again… Jesus could not speak a name or ancestral title in condemnation. We are totally familiar with the common expression, ‘Jesus was sent to save the world, not condemn it.’ Had Jesus made such explicit mention by name or ancestral title, Jesus would have usurped His Father’s authority (Matthew 24:36 KJV). Therefore, we have to study to show ourselves approved before God.

So, who do the Nazarenes propose were “Abraham’s seed” (John 8:33 KJV? Or, have you guys not gotten that far yet?

What is the explicit ancestral identity of ‘them’ who instigated the crucifixion?

What Scripture do you offer (I'll not hold my breath, LOL!) discerns the nefarious ancestry of a hypocrite, liar Jew as Jesus outlined in Rev 2:9, 3:9?

Why are you so afraid of the truth, Nazaroo? Are you afraid the SCRIPTURALLY undocumented ancestry of the Essenes/Nazarenes might have a little tainted blood? Is this why you're a global "Jewish" defender, neglecting the Israelite Jews tossed out with the bathwater? You paint a clear picture suggesting Ezra was a racist, and God might have made some less than righteous choices. Don't tell me... you folks are God's chosen to lead the world to global illumination... then, take a shot at those questions and quite chasing your tail. Are you afraid of that dark closet, or who's under the bed? ROFLOL!

kayaker

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I don't believe in Replacement Theology. I don't believe there is anything to replace. God's people have always been those who believe on Him. In OT times, anyone who believed in the God of Jacob was part of Israel, and anyone who didn't was not. "Jew" was never a race of people. Descendants of Abraham who were not circumcised in OT times we not part of the covenant, and people who didn't directly descend from Abraham were part of Israel if they believed in the God of Israel. When Jesus came to this earth, God's people believed on Him. The people who didn't, and who don't today are not God's people. Therefore, there is nothing to "replace." From Genesis to Revelation, those who believe in the Lord are His people and those who don't are not. One can run around claiming to be a "Jew" all they want, but if they don't believe on Jesus Christ they are condemned.

Very simple and true.

Gods people in the OT became Jews.

LA

 

[Nazaroo]

Kayaker has given a long reply, which I will attend to shortly.

For now I want to note two important posts:

Quote: Originally Posted by Daniel1611 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ben Masada: This statement spells Replacement Theology...

Daniel1611 you have posted the ultimate and most important point:

The LORD God is not a racist or racialist,
and instead judges ALL men and women on their BEHAVIOUR,
not their pedigrees or ancestry.

If the LORD were to simply only care about 'a certain line'
and damn the rest, He would be a worthless God to all the world,
and an imposter.

But the (real) LORD God created and owns all nations,
and even cares for animals and trees.

In spite of what some confused Jews and other racists, tribalists,
and elitists have speculated,
the LORD God has a place in His heart for ANY man of ANY nation
who is honest and seeks to know God.

This SAME God of the N.T. instructs Christians to go and
preach to ALL NATIONS about repentance and salvation.
And God doesn't waste people's time.

I'll leave others to dig out the very clear and even famous
quotations of Holy Scripture that support this point.



Ben Masada I must disagree with you.

It may be that some Christian sects or interpreters have indeed
tried to sell a 'replacement theology', but this Holy Scripture is
NOT one of those supporting texts.

Instead the plain meaning is that God judges behaviour, not bloodlines.
Its important for Jews also to acknowledge this, since:

(1) Many Jews have intermarried tribally and racially.

(2) Modern Jewish rules using the female bloodline are
the exact OPPOSITE of the TORAH commandments,
which trace lineage through the MALE line.

Even if Jewish records were worth something,
they would disqualify ALL modern Jews born after the Talmudic changes.

(3) Racism or Tribalism within Judaism would assure its own destruction.

 

[Ben Masada]

Forever, is forever, unless there should come a change.
The Old Covenant has been revoked. That means that circumcision is no longer required. The old priesthood has been replaced. Yahwah has stopped the festivals and sin sacrifices.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

Prophet Zechariah is talking about the Covenant made with all Israelites aka Israel and Judah. They meant two staffs, Israel was called "Favor" aka Beauty and Judah was called "Bonds" aka Bands. (Zech. 11:7) Then the Lord broke the staff "Favor" asunder when He rejected the Tent of Joseph aka the Ten Tribes forever. (Psalm 78:67-69) Of the staff "Bonds" together with some of the staff "Favor", HaShem made one only People and no longer two kingdoms. (Ezek. 37:22) That's what that prophecy is all about. No replacement of any thing. Sacrifices, although we no longer need them, they could still return to be made in memory of the Scapegoat when the Temple is rebuilt.

 

[aikido7]

It is difficult to be friends with Hebrews when you keep getting Jewed.

What I find curious is how you seem unable or unwilling to acknowledge and understand your relationships with others to "Jesus" them.

A lack of understanding breeds no wisdom.

 

[Ben Masada]

I don't believe in Replacement Theology. I don't believe there is anything to replace. God's people have always been those who believe on Him. In OT times, anyone who believed in the God of Jacob was part of Israel, and anyone who didn't was not. "Jew" was never a race of people. Descendants of Abraham who were not circumcised in OT times we not part of the covenant, and people who didn't directly descend from Abraham were part of Israel if they believed in the God of Israel. When Jesus came to this earth, God's people believed on Him. The people who didn't, and who don't today are not God's people. Therefore, there is nothing to "replace." From Genesis to Revelation, those who believe in the Lord are His people and those who don't are not. One can run around claiming to be a "Jew" all they want, but if they don't believe on Jesus Christ they are condemned.

I agree with you but according to Revelation 14:12. Here is the saints of the Most High; those who keep the Law and the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism. I do believe in Jesus but not the way the NT paints him to have been. Jesus was a Jew.

 

[kayaker]

Kayaker has given a long reply, which I will attend to shortly.

For now I want to note two important posts:

Quote: Originally Posted by Daniel1611 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ben Masada: This statement spells Replacement Theology...

Daniel1611 you have posted the ultimate and most important point:

The LORD God is not a racist or racialist,

Thus saith Nazaroo: EZRA was the racist, ROFLOL! God just made some uninformed choices. You totally crack me up!

and instead judges ALL men and women on their BEHAVIOUR,

Another boohoo voodoo theology! Only One was without sin. Take a listen to Paul:

Hebrews 12:1, 2, KJV "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."​

Why are you so impatient, whirlwind Nazaroo? Who do you think is holding sin over your head that Jesus wiped clean, way back when? Let go of the baggage, Nazaroo! Do you often hear whispering thoughts that you are not a good person? How often to you have thoughts that you've been a failure to yourself, family, or God? I can suggest an anti-depressant if you wan't to talk about it. Do you think good behavior today can somehow wash away the sins of the past, affording salvation? One's best behavior doesn't even hold a candle to the Light of the World (Mark 2:23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28).

Is that all you have Nazaroo, behavior? Almighty God is not a child abuser. Pastors act like emotional child abusers standing in the pulpits casting spells of guilt and doubt upon the congregation. I get the impression yours is more than a couple rungs of a ladder short of the "truth" (John 8:30, John 8:31 KJV, John 8:32 KJV).

not their pedigrees or ancestry.

Jesus was cross-examined by the Shelanites regarding HIS pedigree (John 8:12, 13, 14). Jesus proved His divinity between John 8:12-47... now there's the million dollar prize (Mattew 13:17 KJV)! And, He rent the veil on theirs: John 8:44 KJV, John 8:47 KJV, Matthew 23:30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, Rev 2:9, 3:9. Get you crucified every time... stoned... beheaded. The OT would have been hard pressed to have survived had the synagogue of Satan solved the mysteries, there in... Why wasn't Jesus a racist, Nazaroo? Certainly it rattles your foundation to utterly know Jesus wasn't a NAZARITE, Nazaroo. Jesus was a PHARZITE. Maybe I need to start the Church of the Pharazenes, LOL!

If the LORD were to simply only care about 'a certain line'
and damn the rest, He would be a worthless God to all the world,
and an imposter.

The Lord God TOTALLY cared about the ancestry of His Promised One... other than that, ask Nicodemus, one of Ben's ole buddies. Besides, you've already called His chosen second law-giver Ezra, a racist. The impostors were the Shelanites, and racists from the word go.

But the (real) LORD God created and owns all nations,
and even cares for animals and trees.

"real", Nazaroo? The "real LORD God"? The One whose servant Ezra is a racist? If anyone's eyes are like mine... they're glazing over in your children's Sunday school class.

In spite of what some confused Jews and other racists, tribalists, and elitists have speculated, the LORD God has a place in His heart for ANY man of ANY nation who is honest and seeks to know God.

No speculation to Ezra's assessment of a sad situation (Ezra 9:1, 2, 7), or the hope found in his prayer to Almighty God (Ezra 9:8 KJV). But, I seemed to miss your clarity: Who is honest? Who seeks to know God? You're not going to play God's DA again, are you? Because it sounds like a set-up for a guilt trip from the bullpit preceding a swooning cram-down getting me all wrapped up in a swaddling blanket shoving a bottle of warm milk in my face to ease my revolving door guilt. How's that for an MO? You do know what a swaddling blanket is?

This SAME God of the N.T. instructs Christians to go and
preach to ALL NATIONS about repentance and salvation.
And God doesn't waste people's time.

Seriously? Are all Nazarenes boohoo voodoo mystics, Nazaroo? I can do confession in a Catholic Church. Got any corroborating Scripture for that one? Take a look at Matthew 28:19, 20... "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." What's in Jesus' name besides 5 letters, Nazaroo? Reflect a moment on God's racist lineage to produce Jesus (Luke 3:23-38). The New Testament BEGINS with the lineage of Jesus from David. Was Matthew a racist like Ezra?

God saw it (Genesis 6:8, 9), Noah saw it (Genesis 9:26 KJV), Ezra saw it (Ezra 9:8 KJV), Isaiah saw it (Isaiah 65:9), Matthew saw it (Matthew 1:1 KJV), Luke saw it (Luke 3:23-38), Abraham saw it (John 8:56 KJV)… bunch of racists, I guess. But, you hang in there with that bipolar theology of yours... can't see the truth for the tears in your church, and walk out the door with a box of tissues in one hand, and a flagrum in the other, prepared to talk behavior-based salvation? Are your pews built with tissue boxes? And, flagrum hangars inside the exit doors?

I'll leave others to dig out the very clear and even famous
quotations of Holy Scripture that support this point.

You'll leave others... You don't quote Scripture in the manic phase of your bipolar theology, Nazaroo. Ezra's dust in your whirlwind, and God's judgment is negotiable with you practicing as His district attorney prosecuting every non-Nazarene for violations of health codes, etc.?

Ben Masada I must disagree with you.

It may be that some Christian sects or interpreters have indeed
tried to sell a 'replacement theology', but this Holy Scripture is
NOT one of those supporting texts.

I guess the truuuuue church is Nazarene? Pharazene, maybe. Ben's talking about Christianity replacing Shelanite Theology: Satan's one historic synagogue. But, I do have some respect for Ben's replacement theology argument: Christianity has been replaced by guilt-laden, shame-based, boohoo voodoo theology. Hand me a box of tissues to wipe this Noah’s finest wine, and kosher pork barbecue sauce off my face as I continue watching this show!

Instead the plain meaning is that God judges behaviour, not bloodlines.

BEHAVIOR? You and Ben both need a come-to-Jesus meeting, LOL! Ben already subscribes to your salvation by works (aka BEHAVIOR) theology, Nazaroo! Guess where your Nazarene theology came from? Jesus' bloodline was challenged by His Shelanite accusers in John 8:12, 13, 14, 15, PARTICULARLY in John 8:41 KJV!!! Do I have the correct impression from you that Jesus could have just as easily been born of any ole virgin... Canaanite... Shelanite... It mattered to Ezra, my ole racist buddy, along with God and the gang.

Its important for Jews also to acknowledge this, since:

(1) Many Jews have intermarried tribally and racially.

You're about 2,400 years late with that news, LOL! Ask my ole racist buddy Ezra, ROFLOL! Ezra prophesied the current state of 'affairs' in Ezra 9:14 KJV. So, I will add a significant correction to your point: Many ISRAELITES have married OUTSIDE of THEIR tribes... speaking of Judah and his CANAANITE wife particularly, unnamed ancestress to Shelanite replacement theologians. Didn’t King Solomon get in hot water about hooking-up with a harem of foreign wives? Not to mention Esau… he was out hunting a couple of Hittite hotties, and came home exhausted with wine still on his breath, wreaking of stale perfume and hickies all over him… No way to show up at his grandfather’s funeral!

(2) Modern Jewish rules using the female bloodline are
the exact OPPOSITE of the TORAH commandments,
which trace lineage through the MALE line.

Little late on the scene there, Nazaroo. Sounds a lot like: Who's ya mamma, "we be Abraham's seed"? "Jewishness" being established by the mother is THE cornerstone of Shelanite replacement theology (aka, Talmudism): bow the knee to MOTHER Keturah, the great harlot, and her granddaughter, Judah's Canaanitess wife, MOTHER of the Shelanites. Their maternal-based theology holds the covenant of marriage (Genesis 25:1, Gen 38:2, 12) ABOVE Mosaic Law found in Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, Ezra 1, 2, 7. Was Moses a racist too, Nazaroo? The covenant of marriage SANCTIFIED “Abraham’s seed” Shuah , father-in-law of Judah. The covenant of marriage between Judah and his Canaanite wife SANCTIFIED the Shelanites as the lineage through who messiah would arrive. Do you buy that? And, you’re telling Ben, what? Head toward the light, Nazaroo. That’s the meat of this discussion. Does this help shed a little light on Shelanite replacement theology manifest as Talmudic Judaism?

Ask Ben: who's ya mamma? Abraham's second WIFE Keturah, or his half-sister Sarah? Judah's Canaanite WIFE, or his widowed daughter-in-law who played the harlot? NOW don't hold your breath, LOL! Jewish Poster Chair claims Davidic maternal ancestry, respectfully. See, Nazaroo... Chair is an Israelite Jew. Ben's a Sephardic Jew. Learn the difference (Rev 2:9, 3:9). As long as you are 'lost' in the ancestral dust storm, BEHAVIOR is the only difference you can see between a lost sheep, and a wolf in sheep's clothing. On that note, the Jews have your 'behavior' based salvation down to a science.

Even if Jewish records were worth something,
they would disqualify ALL modern Jews born after the Talmudic changes.

The HEBREW records are priceless, Nazaroo... these precious records establish the unadulterated ancestral authenticity of Jesus, a Pharzite Jew. Meanwhile, the Jews keep waiting for their messiah through endless genealogies as a descendant of Judah and his WIFE, via their son, Shelah. Do you grasp the notion of Shelanite replacement theology, yet? Jesus knew their utter hypocrisy, He exposed them, and 'they' instigated His crucifixion, "we be Abraham's seed." Ask John the Baptist, his father Zacharias, ask Stephen...

(3) Racism or Tribalism within Judaism would assure its own destruction.

God forbade racism in Genesis 4:15, 24 that you guys haven't figured out yet. In all fairness Nazaroo... neither have the Jews, and they've held the Books of Moses for quite some time (Acts 7:51, 52, 53). Talmudic Judaism TEACHES racism: Ham sodomized Noah and castrated him (but didn't circumcise Noah? ROFLOL). Consequently, Ham's son Cush was "smitten" with "black skin." There's a fair god for you... If a black man does something really bad, is his son born white? And, you think Ezra's a racist? Dude!!!

You are a total hoot, Nazaroo. Can't see the trees for the leaves: Mark 8:23, 24, 25, TWO miracles, btw. You only need the first one, Ezekiel talked about trees in chapter 31 KJV.

kayaker

 

[Ben Masada]

Ben Masada I must disagree with you.

It may be that some Christian sects or interpreters have indeed
tried to sell a 'replacement theology', but this Holy Scripture is
NOT one of those supporting texts.

Instead the plain meaning is that God judges behaviour, not bloodlines.
Its important for Jews also to acknowledge this, since:

(1) Many Jews have intermarried tribally and racially.

(2) Modern Jewish rules using the female bloodline are
the exact OPPOSITE of the TORAH commandments,
which trace lineage through the MALE line.

Even if Jewish records were worth something,
they would disqualify ALL modern Jews born after the Talmudic changes.

(3) Racism or Tribalism within Judaism would assure its own destruction.

Nazaroo, the foundation of the NT is about the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. It beats me how you cannot see that. We have nothing to do with tribalism as from Ezekiel 37:22 we are only one nation, one Kingdom without tribal distinction. No longer two Peoples. Replacement Theology has to do with the attempts of the NT to vandalize Judaism with the things of Christianity and to imply that we as Jews have no longer the right to exist among the religions of the world.

 

[Nazaroo]

Nazaroo, the foundation of the NT is about the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. It beats me how you cannot see that. We have nothing to do with tribalism as from Ezekiel 37:22 we are only one nation, one Kingdom without tribal distinction. No longer two Peoples. Replacement Theology has to do with the attempts of the NT to vandalize Judaism with the things of Christianity and to imply that we as Jews have no longer the right to exist among the religions of the world.

I obviously don't subscribe to replacement theology.

but

(2) I don't take true Christianity to be based on Paul's pastoral nonsense.

(3) I do base Christianity on the gospels/Acts, and inclusive of letters like
James, John, and Revelation.

Paul is cute, but not even essential to Christianity.

Any doctrine based on Paul alone will automatically be a loose plank
and a weak railing that I wouldn't let anyone lean on.

 

[CherubRam]

Prophet Zechariah is talking about the Covenant made with all Israelites aka Israel and Judah. They meant two staffs, Israel was called "Favor" aka Beauty and Judah was called "Bonds" aka Bands. (Zech. 11:7) Then the Lord broke the staff "Favor" asunder when He rejected the Tent of Joseph aka the Ten Tribes forever. (Psalm 78:67-69) Of the staff "Bonds" together with some of the staff "Favor", HaShem made one only People and no longer two kingdoms. (Ezek. 37:22) That's what that prophecy is all about. No replacement of any thing. Sacrifices, although we no longer need them, they could still return to be made in memory of the Scapegoat when the Temple is rebuilt.

The mission of Judaism was to convert the people of the world to Judaism. As a parable, the term "Israel" and "Judah" can also mean "nation" and "faithful." We are under a New Covenant now, bringing back the Old Covenant would make Yahwah angry.

Originally Posted by CherubRam.
Forever, is forever, unless there should come a change.
The Old Covenant has been revoked. That means that circumcision is no longer required. The old priesthood has been replaced. Yahwah has stopped the festivals and sin sacrifices.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

 

[Nazaroo]

to begin with, Nazaroo... there are Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, and Israelite Jews (by and large). You've not been listening if you've not read that I proffer the Shelanites are predominately within the Sephardic group, today.

Okay so unlike other fringers, you subscribe to the Slomo version:

The Sephardic Jews (the ones from Morocco, Spain, Portugal, Western Europe) are the real "Seed of Satan".

Unfortunately,

(a) 90% of modern Jewry is Ashkenazim. So unless you go to a Spanish rural farmhouse, you're not likely to run into your mythical "Shelanite Jew" (spawn of Satan) in the flesh.

(b) More importantly, Jesus didn't subscribe to or teach such a nonsensical racial/tribal origin for His own crucifixion, or the evil in the world.

While doubtless there were many "racially" oriented Jews in Jesus' day,
who shunned Samaritans (cf. John), who refused descendants of the Northern Tribes entrance to official Jewry (cf. Ezra), and who wanted to rebel against the yoke of Roman occupation (cf. Barrabas, Zealots), but who couldn't even get along amongst themselves (cf. Galilean behaviour in 6:15f).

Yet Jesus consistently and steadfastly ignored Abrahamic claims for both Jews and Arabs (cf. John 8), exposed racism and ignored Israelite exclusivity and privilege (cf. Mark 7:24-29), even dismissed family ties (Mark 3:31-35) and family concerns (Luke 12:13), and put the blame for evil and misfortune and even damnation on one issue alone:

SIN:

Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, ' everyone who sins is a slave of sin. ... so if the Son makes you free, you will be truly free.... of SIN." (John 8:34,36)

and OBEDIENCE:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matt. 7:21 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Romans 2:13

With all due respect Nazaroo, I would like the record to note you’ve yet to provide any Scripture discounting same in this thesis.

Spoiler

 

[CherubRam]

What I find curious is how you seem unable or unwilling to acknowledge and understand your relationships with others to "Jesus" them.

A lack of understanding breeds no wisdom.

I like Hebrew's, but I do not like Jews. Jew is a curse word.
Pray we don't get Jewed again. The festivals and sin sacrifices have been done away with, along with the old priesthood.

 

[Nazaroo]

The evidence [for a Shelanite Jew Conspiracy] is subtly available in the Good Book, Nazaroo.

Sorry, Charlie.

All the scriptures you have been able to imagine supporting your theory
are vague and in most cases were not meant to be applied literally or genetically.
Its a disgrace to the teachings of the Lord Jesus the Christ
that you would take His noble Gospel teachings concerning SIN and OBEDIENCE and
LOYALTY to God, and dumb them down to a childish tribal quarrel.

The Jews en masse as a nation were held responsible for
the failure to discern the times and the rejection of the Messiah.

Which Jews? Those who did not repent and accept the gospel.

Thus, ALL Jews who did accept the gospel (numbering in the many thousands),
were indeed saved, and came to represent the "TRUE Israel",
while ALL Jews living at that time who wilfully and knowingly
rejected the gospel became "the children of Satan". f

There can be no racial or tribal distinction here between Jews.

The ENTIRE basis of rejection or acceptance by God,
of representing the TRUE Israel versus the sham Israel,
is repentance and embracing the message of Jesus the Christ.

As far as Jesus Christ and His gospel is concerned,
there ARE NO "Shelanite Jews" of any significance or special status at all,
either positive or negative.

EVERY JEW, EVERY GENTILE will be judged on the basis of
repentance, acceptance, and obedience to Jesus the Christ.

There are no other winners, and no other losers.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matt. 7:21 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Romans 2:13

No Shelanite Jews to be noted for special disobedience,
No Pharezite Jews to be heralded for racial purity,
and no Khazar Jews to be rejected for adopting Judaism.

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

Three strikes and you're out.

 

[Nazaroo]

Who do you Scripturally document as THE ancestor(s) to those the ‘hypocrite’ “Jews” “of the synagogue of Satan” in Rev 2:9, 3:9?

They're all right here:

Do you honestly think the Wrath of God
fell upon the wrong Jews?

 

[Nazaroo]

This explicit distinction was the temptation of Christ in John 8:4, 5, 6 referring to Leviticus 20:10 KJV. She was caught in the act, correct? Then where’s the dude? Jesus was tempted to summon the dude, according to Lev 20:10, invoking Judgment. That’s why He doodled names of each of her accusers in the dirt who tangoed with this temple harlot. Jesus’ temptation (John 8:5, 6) was followed by His words in John 8:15 KJV reflected also in John 8:26 KJV. What did Jesus mean when He told ‘them’ “…he that sent me is true”? Jesus couldn’t specifically condemn an individual (including ancestral titles) without invoking Judgment (Matthew 24:36 KJV). Therefore, Jesus could not specifically identify His accusers with an ancestral title like Canaanites or Shelanites, so He used devices like pronouns (John 8:44 KJV) and non-ancestral titles like scribes and Pharisees.

Now you've annoyed me.

Your entire theory is false and nonsensical, and contradicts Holy Scripture.

I did spend 40 years studying these very verses, (John 7:53-8:11).

I also built up a Website dedicated to these very verses,
containing 40,000 pages of data and research,
and presenting the VERY BEST commentary and interpretation of same.

I'm not expecting you to read 40,000 pages.

However, you are going to at least have to read ONE PAGE HERE,
presenting the best scholarship and insight of the last 400 years on this.

Until you do read this one (long) page,
DON'T EVER BRING UP John 8:1-11 again.

I cannot engage in battle with an unarmed blind man.

 

[Nazaroo]

Again, Jesus could not speak a name or ancestral title in condemnation (John 8:15 KJV)

This is your only explanation for why Jesus did not 'openly' condemn
the Shelanite Jews (your own fictional identifcation for those opposing Jesus).

Yet even this elaborate and carefully crafted (are you indeed a Jesuit?) claim
simply won't stand the light of day when facing other Holy Scriptures:

Jesus had no trouble naming and identifying whole groups and classes and tribes (according to you) in CONDEMNATION:

"Woe to you scribes and Pharisees! ..." (Matt. 23:14)
"Beware the scribes!.. (Luke 20:46)
"Woe to you lawyers!.." (Luke 11:52)

You say he could not speak a "name" in condemnation:

"Go tell that fox..." [TetrArch Herod] (Luke 13:32) 'Jesus is actually insulting him, for a fox is an unclean animal in the Israelite holiness codes. ...'

'Jesus rebuked Peter: "Get thee behind me Satan!.." (Mark 8:33)

Are you saying it wasn't clear to everyone present that he was addressing Peter?
If your identification of "seed of Satan" really means Shelanite Jews,
is Peter a Shelanite Jew?

 

[Daniel1611]

I agree with you but according to Revelation 14:12. Here is the saints of the Most High; those who keep the Law and the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism. I do believe in Jesus but not the way the NT paints him to have been. Jesus was a Jew.

This is one of the oldest lies that the Judaists tell. They tell this lie that Judaism is the religion of the OT, the religion of the prophets and Jesus. It is not. Judaism is the pagan religion of the Pharisees that they invented in Babylon. Judaism has nothing to do with the Bible, except for the fact that they have hijacked Biblical terms and used them for the vile, racist Judaist religion. Jesus condemned the Pharisees. He didn't practice their false religion.

Further, if one believes in Jesus but not the Jesus of the NT, then they have created an image in their mind, because everything we know about Jesus comes from the NT. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. But he that believeth not on the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[Nazaroo]

Again, Jesus could not speak a name or ancestral title in condemnation (John 8:15 KJV)

So you say, but what is "Israel" if not an ancestral title of the most important kind?

Here Jesus openly and unambiguously condemns
and insults the whole nation of Israel using their Ancestral Title:

When Jesus heard him, he marveled, and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I say to you, not even in Israel have I found such faith. I tell you, many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.” Matt. 8:10-12

This is as clear a CONDEMNATION as it gets.

Do you think Jesus forgot the rule you invented?