Jesus' word is the center of Christianity.

[Jacob]

God is no respecter of persons.

Don't you know we have to humble ourselves to be saved?

Again, humility is the quality of someone who is saved, and who is in close relationship with God.

You had reasons for telling me to humble myself. And you had not brought up that you don't think I am saved. I have been saved since I was five years old. I am now 35 years old. That is about 30 years. I don't fear your telling me to humble myself. It is just that since you are a woman and I am a man what I hear is you telling me you have taught me something and I should do what you say, contrary to scripture. And, you just recently told me that we should not reject even one verse, which I very much agree with but at the time you were using it in your argument from your perspective and about me.

I am fine. But you have wanted to debate. God is no respecter of persons applies to all persons, not male and female.

 

[God's Truth]

So you're saying that God prayed to Himself.

That is right, God in the flesh as a Man prayed to Himself in heaven.

Why would he do that? And how did Jesus get his own voice to come from heaven when he was baptized? Can you answer that, or will you just keep putting my beliefs down without any reasoning on your part?

I don't put your beliefs down, you are putting mine down.

There are three. God the Father spoke to Jesus, God the Son.

I never said Jesus pretended to come as a man. He was very much a man, born to a human woman. He was just a PERFECT man, sinless. He balanced out what the first human man did. (Romans chapter 5.)

I did not say you said Jesus pretended to come as a Man. I said God the FATHER did not pretend to come as a Man.

 

[Danoh]

Maybe those who do move on because there is nothing to comment on. Also, those who know the truth may not comment if they see the truth. But if salvation is of the Jews, where does that leave Gentiles? Gentiles can be saved too.

No one is denying the truth of Romans 15:8-12.

Rather, we differ in our understanding of its intended sense in light of a host of many other passages.

Whenever I sense a lack of simple courtesy on the part of anyone, I right away do myself the favor of focusing on the possible validity of the content of what is posted, not on the tone in which it may, or may not, have been meant.

This way, I control what I can control and as a result, the injury of another's words will not only have way less of a negative impact, but will also fail to keep me from seeing what I might be better off focusing on anyway- is the content - not their tone - but the content of their words - is that something I might be better off looking into?

 

[Jacob]

No one is denying the truth of Romans 15:8-12.

Rather, we differ in our understanding of its intended sense in light of a host of many other passages.

Whenever I sense a lack of simple courtesy on the part of anyone, I right away do myself the favor of focusing on the possible validity of the content of what is posted, not on the tone in which it may, or may not, have been meant.

This way, I control what I can control and as a result, the injury of another's words will not only have way less of a negative impact, but will also fail to keep me from seeing what I might be better off focusing on anyway- is the content - not their tone - but the content of their words - is that something I might be better off looking into?

I'm not sure what you mean. What is it you believe you might be better off looking into?

I'm not familiar with tone but I understand content and meaning, context, and what is straight-forward or plain and clear.

 

[Danoh]

I'm not sure what you mean. What is it you believe you might be better off looking into?

I'm not familiar with tone but I understand content and meaning, context, and what is straight-forward or plain and clear.

Looking into the intended sense of passages like Romans 15:8-12.

But you did jump to conclusions about passages like that one when I posted that article I know you'd have been better off reading.

As for the other, I was referring to the demeaning tone with which some appear to post to others.

 

[Jacob]

Looking into the intended sense of passages like Romans 15:8-12.

But you did jump to conclusions about passages like that one when I posted that article I know you'd have been better off reading.

As for the other, I was referring to the demeaning tone with which some appear to post to others.

I understand some might have trouble or a problem with tone. But I am not very good with tone myself and I don't know when others are adjusting their tone or how to evaluate their tone. Maybe I will learn what tone is. For now I don't even know how to describe different tones.

What conclusions do you believe I jumped to, and can you reference the post you are referring to? Romans 15:8-12 has one meaning. This is true as with all scripture. It is also true that a passage can have more than one possible meaning, interpretation, or sense. The validity of a given interpretation, and the sense of a passage or text can help give you clues to its meaning. I believe you are searching or seeking for application. That is, how to apply what it is that you are learning (when you read scripture or when you read the Bible).

So, what conclusions do you believe I have demonstrated jumping to or that I have, or even my tone, and which article are you referring to? I have been discussing with God's Truth and some with meshak, on this thread.

There is much that can be gathered or gleaned from this passage. A passage's application to real life and how we apply it may be different subjects or topics for discussion, as well as application in terms of Hermeneutics which is the Art and Science of Biblical Interpretation. Application is the last step.

There are many things to learn from even just one verse in the Bible, of any given verse.

 

[Jacob]

Tone in terms of writing style or an author's tone can be considered different from a person's tone of voice, or tone in music.

 

[Danoh]

Jacob, what do you make of Romans 15:8-12, in light of the fact of what Paul relates in Romans 11:11 and 11:25-29?

In other words; given that Romans 15:8-12 is referring to Isaiah 2:1-5, but that Paul relates in Romans 11:25-29, now awaits some yet future time other than our present one.

Read also Acts 15: 15-18, and all of 2 Peter 3.

 

[Danoh]

Tone in terms of writing style or an author's tone can be considered different from a person's tone of voice, or tone in music.

I was not talking about that. Ok. Forget that part for now.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, what do you make of Romans 15:8-12, in light of the fact of what Paul relates in Romans 11:11 and 11:25-29?

In other words; given that Romans 15:8-12 is referring to Isaiah 2:1-5, but that Paul relates in Romans 11:25-29, now awaits some yet future time other than our present one.

Read also Acts 15: 15-18, and all of 2 Peter 3.

I'm not sure. I remember that Jesus is the Messiah spoken of and that from Acts the reader must admit that David was still in his tomb.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I know, that's why I spread Jesus' word instead of arguing about teachings of man.

YOu see, I don't have my own doctrines, yet I get so many insulting comments and personal attacks in my threads. Don't you see so many posters here attacking me personally instead of talking about OP?

This is the reality of many churches. They don't like to see what Jesus' says.

Thank you Sir. Have a good day.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I am not "born again." But I understand what Jesus meant by enduring to the end. And that applied to those who are "born again" as well as anyone else.

JWs used to bother people by knocking on their door. Now, they bother people in forums. You guys are something else.

 

[Danoh]

I'm not sure. I remember that Jesus is the Messiah spoken of and that from Acts the reader must admit that David was still in his tomb.

Read those passages I referred you to.

Romans 15:8-12 is to take place when Acts 3:19-25 takes place.

But Acts 3:19-25 did not happen. Rom. 11:11 happened instead. Peter began to find this out in Acts 10, after what Rom. 11:11 says happened in Acts 7:51, per Matt. 12:30-32.

Peter understands this after he meets with Paul in Gal. 2.

Peter explains this is what happened in 2 Peter 3.

Read the passages. Sheesh...

 

[Jacob]

Read those passages I referred you to.

Romans 15:8-12 is to take place when Acts 3:19-25 takes place.

But Acts 3:19-25 did not happen. Rom. 11:11 happened instead. Peter began to find this out in Acts 10, after what Rom. 11:11 says happened in Acts 7:51, per Matt. 12:30-32.

Peter understands this after he meets with Paul in Gal. 2.

Peter explains this what happened in 2 Peter 3.

Read the passages. Sheesh...

I read your last post and now I have read this one as well, including all the passages between these two posts. Did you forget about the following verse?

Acts 5:31 NASB - 31 "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

See also,

Acts 11:18 NASB - 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

2 Timothy 2:25 NASB - 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

 

[Danoh]

I read your last post and now I have read this one as well, including all the passages between these two posts. Did you forget about the following verse?

Acts 5:31 NASB - 31 "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

See also,

Acts 11:18 NASB - 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

2 Timothy 2:25 NASB - 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

You are not seeing the obvious....

There is this...

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

That was supposed to be Acts 3, after this...

Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

This is Acts 3:25, 26 and Rom. 15:8-12....

60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

That is through Israel's RISE.

It was delayed...

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

But it was delayed only temporarily...

11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

In Acts 15, they conclude that God was now visiting the Gentiles directly, and not under the Law.

The reason for their debate about Gentiles and the Law was that this UNPROPHESIED interruption that God had planned threw them off.

For in the Prophesied order of things the Gentiles will be under the Law....

Zechariah 8:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

8:13 And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.

8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD. 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

In Acts 15 they agreed that what began in Matthew thru Early Acts was now on hold "til the fulness OF THE GENTILES be come in" Rom. 11:25.

With that, that Messianic assembly died out with them way back in the 1st Century, and now awaits a future day as to thar ENTIRE nation.

Why?

"For this is my covenant with them; when I shall take away their sins" Rom. 11:26.

Then, Rom. 15:8-12 begins.

This is why the JWs are WRONG. This is why the PENTECOSTALS are WRONG. This is why MESSIANIC JEWS are WRONG.

Why Meshak is WRONG. Why "God's Truth" is WRONG.

Why EVERYONE who is not MID-ACTS is WRONG.

It is a tough statement, I know.

But NO ONE has proven it otherwise TO THIS VERY DAY.

Steko KNOWS this TRUTH. STP KNOWS this TRUTH. heir KNOWS this TRUTH. Right Divider KNOWS this TRUTH. Nick M, John W, and a dozen or more others on here.

There ISN'T a question we cannot point to countless passages to in this.

Ask away. And then ACTUALLY follow this principle...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Why?

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

Matthew 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

The best to you in this...

 

[Jacob]

You are not seeing the obvious....

There is this...

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

That was supposed to be Acts 3, after this...

Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

This is Acts 3:25, 26 and Rom. 15:8-12....

60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

That is through Israel's RISE.

It was delayed...

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

But it was delayed only temporarily...

11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

In Acts 15, they conclude that God was now visiting the Gentiles directly, and not under the Law.

The reason for their debate about Gentiles and the Law was that this UNPROPHESIED interruption that God had planned threw them off.

For in the Prophesied order of things the Gentiles will be under the Law....

Zechariah 8:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; 8:8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

8:13 And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.

8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD. 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

In Acts 15 they agreed that what began in Matthew thru Early Acts was now on hold "til the fulness OF THE GENTILES be come in" Rom. 11:25.

With that, that Messianic assembly died out with them way back in the 1st Century, and now awaits a future day as to thar ENTIRE nation.

Why?

"For this is my covenant with them; when I shall take away their sins" Rom. 11:26.

Then, Rom. 15:8-12 begins.

This is why the JWs are WRONG. This is why the PENTECOSTALS are WRONG. This is why MESSIANIC JEWS are WRONG.

Why Meshak is WRONG. Why "God's Truth" is WRONG.

Why EVERYONE who is not MID-ACTS is WRONG.

It is a tough statement, I know.

But NO ONE has proven it otherwise TO THIS VERY DAY.

Steko KNOWS this TRUTH. STP KNOWS this TRUTH. heir KNOWS this TRUTH. Right Divider KNOWS this TRUTH. Nick M, John W, and a dozen or more others on here.

There ISN'T a question we cannot point to countless passages to in this.

Ask away. And then ACTUALLY follow this principle...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Why?

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

Matthew 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

The best to you in this...

God did grant repentance to Israel in Messiah with the coming of the new covenant. The new covenant was not delayed for Israel.

This is how I understand it. This is what I understand.

 

[Totton Linnet]

I know, that's why I spread Jesus' word instead of arguing about teachings of man.

YOu see, I don't have my own doctrines, yet I get so many insulting comments and personal attacks in my threads. Don't you see so many posters here attacking me personally instead of talking about OP?

This is the reality of many churches. They don't like to see what Jesus' says.

*
As in all your posts "so many" churches and "so many posters" mean everyone you attack us and then start weeping all over the place that nobuddy loves you.

Your doctrine is a lie and your life is a testimony to that fact, for you do not keep His commands

 

[Danoh]

God did grant repentance to Israel in Messiah with the coming of the new covenant. The new covenant was not delayed for Israel.

This is how I understand it. This is what I understand.

You must be right, then. I mean, there is no possible way anyone might successfully refute all the Scripture you have just cited proving your undestanding is sound.

In this, GT has a better chance of one day understanding the passages I just now cited. GT at least often comes back with a good portion of passages in her attempted defense of her view. There is actually some hope in some one like that. In that they are at least familiar with a great many passges.

I'm sorry, J, but your word, humble or not, is alone not going to cut it with this "Berean."

I don't know about you, but personally, I find it difficult to hold one who simply posts their own two cents, not even bothering to at least attempt to back it up with Scripture that the passages might then be mutually explored, I find someone like that a bit shallow.

The best to you in this odd approach of yours....

 

[Totton Linnet]

I am not "born again." But I understand what Jesus meant by enduring to the end. And that applied to those who are "born again" as well as anyone else.

You insist that we keep Christ's commands...here is His command "ye must be born again, unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God"

This is the beginning of the Christian life, nobody is a Christian until they are born again.

 

[Jacob]

You must be right, then. I mean, there is no possible way anyone might successfully refute all the Scripture you have just cited proving your undestanding is sound.

In this, GT has a better chance of one day understanding the passages I just now cited. GT at least often comes back with a good portion of passages in her attempted defense of her view. There is actually some hope in some one like that. In that they are at least familiar with a great many passges.

I'm sorry, J, but your word, humble or not, is alone not going to cut it with this "Berean."

I don't know about you, but personally, I find it difficult to hold one who simply posts their own two cents, not even bothering to at least attempt to back it up with Scripture that the passages might then be mutually explored, I find someone like that a bit shallow.

The best to you in this odd approach of yours....

See post 934.