God's Truth
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Jesus says to EAT HIS BODY, yet you think no one spoke of the body of Christ until Paul?!
Jesus' word is the center of Christianity.
- Thread starter meshak
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Jesus says to EAT HIS BODY, yet you think no one spoke of the body of Christ until Paul?!
I don't know if your attitude in this is right. I must not be arrogant or over the top.
When I say visual I mean that I caught a glimpse of something, but that it has nothing to do with anything I can effect. I don't know if it is predetermined. I don't know if it is words and language and describing this and knowing what it means to receive Christ and if it is Biblical (I have thought at one point in my life that accepting Christ might be a more Biblical term), but that it doesn't have to do necessarily with inviting Jesus into my heart. Does it have to do with my being saved? I don't know. But that is what I was all about so I don't know why it would be any different. Is it that there is a cost to being saved? Jesus died for me. But I'm talking about where that becomes a reality in this present world. It is more than something of the mind or sensory. But why could I not put words or sense to it? Only knowing it was beyond me and my ability to effect, and that it might be or that I sensed something to be bad or wrong. What was it or what it was I don't know.
God's Truth
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We have had a past conversation, and I thank you for that. I can see it for myself, and I believe I remember having recognized this in my past. The words are not the same. Synonymous not in word, words, or terminology or these phrases, but because the verse implies that they are the same. Synonymous carries with it the idea of same, but in a particular way. Not that the words are the same. The same in terms of Theological terminology or concept maybe? How can I (How I can) describe this, I don't know.
Synonym means words that are the SAME.
ClimateSanity
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How is rightly dividing the word creating division? You were a dispensationalist and never understood this? What kind of dispensationalism did you believe in?
This is in response to post 432 by Jacob.
This is in response to post 432 by Jacob.
God's Truth
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It is good to be cautious. I have not shared my experiences with many.
I feel as if you are being too cautious to talk about it here. I do not want anyone to step on your experiences. If you do want to talk about it here, then please help to understand better. Are you saying you sense evil?
ClimateSanity
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A synonym is a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language.- wikipedia.
God's Truth
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Oops. Ambiguity. :think:
Which "Body of Christ" was Paul talking about?
There is only one body of Christ.
Jesus tells us to eat his body. If we eat his body, we become a part of Jesus, and he becomes a part of us.
God's Truth
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Do you not recognize that as what I said, or are you acknowledging what I said and agreeing with me?
ClimateSanity
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You didn't leave any room for a synonym being "nearly the same". You left no room for anything else but " exactly the same".
Well thank you for pummeling me with these words. What I mean is, if I am blind is it blind spiritually or blind physically? I don't know who you are. But it is a fact that I was under dispensational teaching without even knowing what it was. I have painted the landscape. If you are male, teach on. I would love to interact with you. Bringing truth is not always in the form of having someone read something. Maybe you agree with what was written. Maybe there is more to discuss. Maybe you have read the Bible and see how what is there agreed or agrees with what you are saying or believe, even what you have written? When I explain what I don't know, in light of what I had come to know, it is after having read the Bible. I read (past tense) the Bible first. Then I was in adult teaching and something seemed wrong. If I get rejected for saying something, that is one thing. If I can learn and understand for the purpose of helping others, that is even better. If I declare that I have been looking for Mid-Acts Dispensationalism all along, nothing could be further from the truth. It may help and clarify to learn from what people believe. But if I deny what I have learned in my thirty-five years of existence, much of this studying the Bible on my own (I have only 1-2 years of Bible School), well in terms of Christian Theology I would have to say or I need to say that the philosophies and worldviews of the world pale in comparison. If it has to do with words, lead on. If it has to do with people and respecting Jew and Gentile both, I am all ears. I am not a Zionist in the sense that I don't know that I am Jewish by blood at all... maybe just a convert, or a proselyte, possibly a citizen and how so now even looking at scripture and also the verse that says commonwealth of Israel. And then some say the Israel of God which includes or included some from Israel and likely more from Israel down to our very day with believe in Yeshua as the Messiah. But the point is, I don't own claim to any land in Israel. I have never been to Israel. I love Israel. I would love to go to Israel someday. But, currently I have to live with not saying I am a Zionist (some people are crazy about these things) but knowing that still contrary to some definitions of Zionism, yes Israel is a country or nation like any other nation, but Israel is also a nation that knows the land in which she dwells. All of my Theology and eschatology of dispensationalism aside having rejected it, I cannot go for a spiritual Israel and no national Israel. I believe Israel to be God's chosen nation. And I believe that God's Law can be known by the nations, as well as her Messiah, our Messiah, God's Messiah. The Messiah of Israel and of the whole world, Yeshua (which is Jesus the Christ (Christ means anointed, like Messiah)). He is the Son of God, the King of Israel. And I don't know about a future kingdom with not being able to grasp some things right now, but I know Messiah has a kingdom and that He is at the right hand of God and that I am His subject, even as I love Israel citizen or not and love the nation in which I live, the United States of America... which I believe we should obey or observe God's Law, or the Noachide Laws or Acts 15 or the law of Christ even if the minimum were to be under the law of Christ we are to be obedient to God as His creation, and as believers we are born again and saved with the Spirit of God dwelling in us, and we are to love the brethren, our brothers in Christ. Our nation was founded on the principles of Christianity. And for years now we have known the nation of Israel is back in her land. Israel pursued salvation by works?! Salvation has always been by grace through faith. New Testament believers only are saved?! Those in the Old Testament, Old Testament saints or whatnot, they had faith too. Did they have the Spirit of God like we do in the New Testament? I guess we will have to find out. Am I going to support a spiritual Israel? I see no reason to. The nation of Israel and Biblical references to Israel should be enough.
ClimateSanity
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I may be wrong but I don't think Jesus ever said that.
Spirit of Christ means Spirit of God though it says Spirit of Christ. The same while at the same time not the same. The words Christ and God are different words. The phrases Spirit of Christ and Spirit of God are different. But we are talking about the same thing. Or understanding that the ideas are or can be viewed as synonymous.
ClimateSanity
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Re post 471: What gives you the idea you were under dispensational teaching?
I'm talking about dispensationalism when it divides and separates. I don't know any other dispensationalism. Are we talking about Israel, the church, and Gentiles?
The eschatology of dispensationalism is not something I see in scripture.
Three forms of "confused."
Off is off regardless of shade.
It interesting; the three of you appear to share having hooked up with all sorts of groups out there at one point or another.
You and Meshak appear to have found one (way off base) route through it all.
Jacob is still out there in his version of perhaps this, maybe that.
Unfortunately, all those repeated bumps in the head all those shades of confusion you have each tried out have rendered the three of you unable to see the truth you had sought.
All that long journey only for the three of you to finally reach the right cabin, and instead of going in and partaking of what is being offered, you stand outside hollering at those inside to come on out and join you; the water of your confusion is just right.
In the just right words of Homer Simpson :doh:
God's Truth
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That does not make sense. You say it is not about spiritual Israel. It is about what is spiritual.
God's Truth
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I think you described yourself exactly.
God's Truth
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Can you admit the truth or not? The truth is that the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one and the same Spirit.
There is only ONE Spirit. That is what the scriptures say. Do you believe the scriptures or not?
I grew up in the Plymouth Brethren Assemblies, I attended an open assembly most of my life until I was about 25 years old. John Nelson Darby. But mostly (Charles?) Rhyrie. And I learned of Scofield (spelling). Why is the difference between dispensational theology and dispensationalism, as compared with covenant theology, the view of Israel and the church? Why not talk about Israel and the Gentiles? Why not talk about the church and the body of Christ, whether Jew or Greek (or Gentile)? I am guessing that many who follow covenant theology are reformed. But all I knew about reformed at that time was something to do with the reformation and protestantism. What was dispensationalism..., I didn't know. Evangelism explosion or Biblical evangelism. Calvinism and covenant or Calvinism and Reformed and Covenant. All things I have learned about and seen connections with in time since then. But why not spend time studying the Bible and sharing the gospel?! Friendship evangelism. Becoming friends and loving people, or proclaiming the gospel or sharing the gospel person to person by word and not just by thought or deed. So, there is a lot to learn. But I think I have already expressed when I first heard what dispensationalism was and there was something that didn't sound right and so I said something and that was that... no more teaching about what dispensationalism is. I found out in time on my own. Some interaction with others. But I just thought we are either hearing what the Bible says or we are hearing something different. It wasn't until I was in Bible School that I found a book called The Coming Prince by Sir Robert Anderson. I guess Daniel and pre-trib rapture dispensationalism just didn't make sense to me. I have learned that there is pre-millennial views, including dispensationalism, dispensational views from eschatology with pre-tribulation rapture to mid-trib to post trib (three different views). There is a-millennialism, and post millennialism. And these are just eschatological views. The dispensations and covenant vs. covenant theology with views of the new covenant and the church from Israel, well... why not just be Biblical or be able to think? Why do I need to be in any particular camp? I should be able to fellowship with everyone, all Christians, and not have to feel like I need my mind to operate the same way as the words I am seeing in the theology.
Does that explain it? I'm describing it now, and putting words together. This is not rehearsed so it sounds like to me is it true or made up. But I'm sure you know it has a basis in reality, and it is really what I wanted or want to say in response.