ECT Jesus Return

[Cross Reference]

There's more to it.

Jesus came in 70AD on the Feast of Trumpets.

Because the Feast of Trumpets occurred on a new moon, the Israelites never knew for sure what day it would be. The Sanhedrin used to send out two witnesses to confirm the new moon. It was very difficult on cloudy days, and sometimes they didn't see it for two or three days.

Only when the two witnesses returned to the Sanhedrin to confirm the new moon, did the Feast of Trumpets begin.

When Jesus said "But of that day and hour knoweth no man" it was a hint that He would return on the Feast of Trumpets, which is exactly what He did in 70AD

Here is what the two witnesses would look for:

Where can one purchase that fairtale library you love to quote from? Who are the authors; the publishers, if you aren't too embarrassed to say?

 

[Interplanner]

Chrysostom,
that expression means that there truly is a settled meaning to a passage when all considerations are given their due.

For ex., "if any man is in Christ, he is a new creation." This is perhaps an attractive line that gets quoted a lot. It's upbeat. But the way it is used for many current situations is not quite what Paul had in mind. Not when he had just spend 2.5 chapters on what old covenant Judiasm is like. Not when new creation was one of those fascinating images from the prophets that would be included in the age of Messiah when it came.

Then there's a grammar thing--like finding out "there is..." is not there; that it was Christ himself who was the New Creation and old things are the Judaism that Paul left behind.

The casual observer will say that the average preacher today who wants something upbeat has it right and 'it means what it says.' But by reconstructing some background, there's some things to adjust.

 

[tetelestai]

Where can one purchase that fairtale library you love to quote from? Who are the authors; the publishers, if you aren't too embarrassed to say?

(1 Cor 15:52) in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Jesus returned on the Feast of Trumpets in 70AD

The last time a trumpet was blown for the Feast of Trumpets in Jerusalem was 70AD

 

[Interplanner]

Tet,
the anecdote about the imprecision of siting the new moon is fascinating, I'm just not sure at all that the 'coming' that he referred to many times for that generation is that late. In some cases, I don't know why it would not just be Pentecost and the Spirit. Wind, gathering from the four corners of earth, etc.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Because the Feast of Trumpets occurred on a new moon, the Israelites never knew for sure what day it would be.

If the day was the 30th day since a new month began then they would know that the next day began a new month. No Jewish month had more than 30 days.

Your theory is full of holes.

 

[Interplanner]

But did the temple go by the calculator, or did they allow for the spontaneity of actually having a siting? They obviously sent out witnesses even though they could have just calculated it--if it matters.

 

[tetelestai]

Tet,
the anecdote about the imprecision of siting the new moon is fascinating, I'm just not sure at all that the 'coming' that he referred to many times for that generation is that late. In some cases, I don't know why it would not just be Pentecost and the Spirit. Wind, gathering from the four corners of earth, etc.

It lasted exactly how long the Exodus generation took to enter the Promised Land (40 years_

 

[tetelestai]

Tet,
the anecdote about the imprecision of siting the new moon is fascinating, I'm just not sure at all that the 'coming' that he referred to many times for that generation is that late. In some cases, I don't know why it would not just be Pentecost and the Spirit. Wind, gathering from the four corners of earth, etc.

It couldn't be Pentecost

(Luke 21:7) “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

Jesus then went on to tell them all the signs that would occur before His return.

These signs didn't take place before the Holy Spirit was given on Pentecost in 30AD

All the signs took 40 years.

 

[tetelestai]

If the day was the 30th day since a new month began then they would know that the next day began a new month. No Jewish month had more than 30 days.

Your theory is full of holes.

Your ignorance of Jewish history is glaring.

Here's one example from hebrewroots.com:

"Again, once the Sanhedrin set Rosh Chodesh, or the beginning of the new month by sighting the new moon, the rest of the festivals were calculated. However, the seventh month, Tishri, was particularly important because it was the only month that had a holy convocation or appointed time on the first day of the month. This posed a unique problem. The first day of Tishri was the appointed time called Rosh HaShanah, the Feast of Trumpets (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:24). Yet no one could begin observing the festival until they heard those famous words from the President of the Sanhedrin, "Sanctified!"

No one in Israel could plan for the first day of the seventh month Tishri, called Yom Teruah or the Feast of Trumpets (also called Rosh HaShanah)."

 

[tetelestai]

If the day was the 30th day since a new month began then they would know that the next day began a new month. No Jewish month had more than 30 days.

Your theory is full of holes.

"Yom Teruah is the only festival that no man knows when exactly it will occur. This is due to the fact that it begins on the new moon. The new moon was sanctified when two witnesses see the new moon and attest to it before the Sanhedrin in the Temple.

This sanctification could happen during either of two days, depending on when the witnesses come. Since no one knew when the witnesses would come, no one knew when the Feast of Trumpets would start.

On the 30th of each month, the members of the High Court assembled in a courtyard in Jerusalem, where they waited to receive the testimony of two reliable witnesses. They then sanctified the new moon. The new moon is very difficult to see on the first day because it can be seen only about sunset, close to the sun, when the sun is traveling north. So, looking for a very slim faint crescent moon, which is very close to the sun, is a very difficult thing to do. If the moon’s crescent was not seen on the 30th day, the new moon was automatically celebrated on the 31st day.

For this reason, Yom Teruah is always celebrated for two days. These two days are celebrated as though it is just one long day of forty-eight hours. The reason that it is celebrated for two days is because if they waited to start the celebration until after the new moon had been sanctified, they would have missed half the celebration because the new moon can only be sanctified during daylight hours."

SOURCE

 

[Jerry Shugart]

All the signs took 40 years.

This has not yet been fulfilled:

"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth (oikoumene)" (Lk.21:25-26).​

Well known preterist author Gary DeMar says the following about the meaning of the Greek word oikoumene:

"The case can be made that 'oikoumene' is used exclusively for the geographical area generally limited to the Roman empire of the first-century and the territories immediately adjacent which were known and accessible to first-century travelers. When first-century Christians read the word 'oikoumene,' they thought of what they knew of their world" [emphasis mine] (Gary DeMar, "The Gospel Preached to All the World, Part 3 of 4; The Preterist Archive).​

There has never been a time when a judgment came over an area of land which equaled what the first century Christians knew of their world.

 

[tetelestai]

Once someone understands the Feast of Trumpets, and the two witnesses, and the new moon, the following verse makes more sense:

(Matt 24:36) "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

The Apostle Paul also told us that Christ Jesus would return at the "last trumpet":

(1 Cor 15:52) in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

The "last trumpet" happened in 70AD. That was the last time a trumpet was played on the Feast of Trumpets in Jerusalem.

 

[tetelestai]

This has not yet been fulfilled:

"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth (oikoumene)" (Lk.21:25-26).​

Well known preterist author Gary DeMar says the following about the meaning of the Greek word oikoumene:

"The case can be made that 'oikoumene' is used exclusively for the geographical area generally limited to the Roman empire of the first-century and the territories immediately adjacent which were known and accessible to first-century travelers. When first-century Christians read the word 'oikoumene,' they thought of what they knew of their world" [emphasis mine] (Gary DeMar, "The Gospel Preached to All the World, Part 3 of 4; The Preterist Archive).​

There has never been a time when a judgment came over an area of land which equaled what the first century Christians knew of their world.

Judaea

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Judaea

Is that the best you can do?

 

[tetelestai]

Is that the best you can do?

You keep copying and pasting the same thing over and over again, without addressing the fact that Christ Jesus only told those in Judaea to flee to the mountains.

 

[Interplanner]

An 'oikonome' is any unit that is being managed: home, business, province, state, federation. There is no reason Mt24A cannot be about the province(s) of Israel at that time, or when 'gea' is used.

The flee to the mountains is not the only evidence of limiting it to Judea.

1, the questions are about their situation. Their buildings they thought were going right through to the Messianic age
2, the temple where the awful leader shows and sets up HQ
3, the sabbath police. There aren't any in Cuba or Helsinki. They were in 1st century Judea.
4, the parallels to Mt 10. Lots of the language and circumstances of Mt 10 are repeated here.
5, the corpse. The corpse is Israel. The vulture is a pejorative for the Roman army's mascot.
6, the end. It's the end of the 490 years. The upheaval that desolates at the end of that vision ruins the country.

 

[tetelestai]

The flee to the mountains is not the only evidence of limiting it to Judea.

Jesus also told no one to go to Judaea

(Luke 21:21 KJV) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

 

[Interplanner]

More correctly, that's:
those who are in the country (the rural, agricultural outskirts) should not go to the center of things in Judea

 

[tetelestai]

More correctly, that's:
those who are in the country (the rural, agricultural outskirts) should not go to the center of things in Judea

Either way, it shows the Great Tribulation only occurred in Judaea, specifically Jerusalem.

 

[Interplanner]

Is there a trans that says countries plural? He might have been doubling up on telling people not to return to the home country to fight alongside the zealots, if so.