ECT Jesus Return

H

HisServant

New member
Cross Reference said:
Who saw Jesus when He returned, if as you say He did, and why didn't He stay around awhile that we might know at least by history recording it all?
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Because his Kingdom is not of this earth (as he said) and never will be.

And there are a few eye witnesses to his return in AD70... you just have to look.

But then again, if you come to the realization that he has returned and called the believing Jews home at the time, you have to come to the stark realization of what are we to do now.

Anyhow.. you need to believe all the scripture or none of it.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
HisServant said:
Because his Kingdom is not of this earth (as he said) and never will be.

And there are a few eye witnesses to his return in AD70... you just have to look.

But then again, if you come to the realization that he has returned and called the believing Jews home at the time, you have to come to the stark realization of what are we to do now.

Anyhow.. you need to believe all the scripture or none of it.
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If you have no answers to explain things as you understand them, how do you suppose to persuade away from Jesus Christ as He has been given us by His own words to understand?
 
WonderfulLordJesus

WonderfulLordJesus

New member
Matthew 24

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains...
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Daniel 9

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

2 Thessalonians 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

70 AD? Hardly.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
The word "know" escapes you? Try this for an elementary English lesson that might narrow down the problem: John 17:3 KJV.
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Actually...I think it escaped you this time, CR. Check your OP and you'll see it wasn't there. That's why the confusion over what you meant...
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
HisServant said:
Because his Kingdom is not of this earth (as he said) and never will be.

And there are a few eye witnesses to his return in AD70... you just have to look.

But then again, if you come to the realization that he has returned and called the believing Jews home at the time, you have to come to the stark realization of what are we to do now.

Anyhow.. you need to believe all the scripture or none of it.
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How do you address Rev 20:4-6?

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:4-6

If that thousand years started in 70AD (or thereabouts), did "the rest of the dead" get resurrected to life in (or around) 1070AD?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
The Thess material was indeed about the the events of the Jewish Revolt. Paul speaks of it as being very current, as the wrath of God already crushing Israel.

The figure who is so awful in the passage dates back to Dan 8:13 where a 'rebellion that desolates' is expected. A rebellion is a collective term and sure enough in a few verses there is a leader of this. In dan 9 the date of this is more precisely put, and it's not good news at all. The Gospel will come through Messiah but this desolating figure is not good news.

When Paul used the expression that the person would consider themselves God, we only have to remember the procedures in Judaism for handling such people. And to do that, we only have to remember Christ! Claiming you were Messiah was to say you were God; the high priest would tear his garments upon hearing such.

Paul is speaking of things he expected to happen shortly in Thess (rebellion was simmering all through the NT period). This confirms the church-wide expectation that on the heels of a really awful period in Judea, the 2nd coming would happen.

I would not make as many exact claims about the rapture, etc., for the end of time, although it is obvious that some Christians will be alive on the last day of time, and they will meet their Savior differently than those already dead.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
There are several senses for the term return in the NT:
to return resurrected (for ex., the I will come to you in Jn 13-17)
to return and pour out the Spirit (many passages, one also in Jn 13-17)
to return in the influx of believers from the nations
to return in judgement on Israel
to return for judgement of the whole earth
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
nikolai_42 said:
Actually...I think it escaped you this time, CR. Check your OP and you'll see it wasn't there. That's why the confusion over what you meant...
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You are correct. I drop words as being part of my life these days. :(

"The word "know" escapes you?", is how it should have read. My bad.

Thanks for pointing out my error.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
WonderfulLordJesus said:
3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.
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Jude tells us the following a few years after Peter wrote his epistle:

(Jude 1:17-19) 7 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

As we see, the scoffers Peter warned about lived in the first century. They were amongst the people Jude wrote to.

This proves the "last days" were in the first century.

Hebrews was also written after Peter's epistle, and around the same time Jude was written:

(Heb 1:2) but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

So, what point were you trying to make with 2 Peter 3?
 
I

iamaberean

New member
Cross Reference said:
To diminish Jesus Christ is to promote, setup for the acceptance of the coming one world government headed by the "man of peace" __ Anti-christ, whoever he may be.
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Jesus said many times that he would return in the disciples generation. He even made it clearer when he said "some of you (disciples) shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" Mat 6:28

How are you able to call other people "anti-Christ" when it is you that can't take the above scriptures for what they say?
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Interplanner said:
There are several senses for the term return in the NT:
to return resurrected (for ex., the I will come to you in Jn 13-17)
to return and pour out the Spirit (many passages, one also in Jn 13-17)
to return in the influx of believers from the nations
to return in judgement on Israel
to return for judgement of the whole earth
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what about

just His return?
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
iamaberean said:
Jesus said many times that he would return in the disciples generation.
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Manytimes? Not once.

He even made it clearer when he said "some of you (disciples) shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" Mat 16:28
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Yes, He said that just after He said this you conveniently skipped over:

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works". Matthew 16:27 (KJV)
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How are you able to call other people "anti-Christ" when it is you that can't take the above scriptures for what they say?
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Oh, but I do. It is you and yours who have misconstrued them to declare such Christ diminishing untrue statements to be true.

No rational person would ever be a preterist. Certainly, no Christian would.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Cross Reference said:
Manytimes? Not once.



Yes, He said that just after He said this you conveniently skipped over:



Oh, but I do. It is you and yours who have misconstrued them to declare such Christ diminishing untrue statements to be true.

No rational person would ever be a preterist. Certainly, no Christian would.
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IOW, you can't explain Matt 16:28?

(Matt 16:28 KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

According to you Jesus lied. According to you everyone standing there tasted death before the Son of man came in His kingdom.

If not, please explain Matt 16:28

You do know that Matt 16:28 lines up perfectly with Matt 24:34

(Matt 24:34 KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

There are dozens more verses that support this.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
tetelestai said:
IOW, you can't explain Matt 16:28?

(Matt 16:28 KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

According to you Jesus lied. According to you everyone standing there tasted death before the Son of man came in His kingdom.

If not, please explain Matt 16:28

You do know that Matt 16:28 lines up perfectly with Matt 24:34

(Matt 24:34 KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

There are dozens more verses that support this.
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Please explain matt 16:27. 'nough said. Thats my answer. Take it or leave it.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Cross Reference said:
Sorry, No cigar! And if that is your ONLY explanation, yer an idiot ___ aside from being a willful heathen, anti-christ!
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You still haven't explained Matt 16:28?

Which lines up perfectly with Matt 24:34, Luke 21:32, and Mark 13:30

Still waiting?
 
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