ECT Jesus Return

[iamaberean]

Well now let's not get ahead of ourselves, I reading your claims and slowly evaluating each one; one i noticed is that the twelve tribes of Israel were judged in 70 A.D., would you care to expound on that, you know chapter and verse, historical references and records.​

I will make this the short version since I am not sure which ones need more explaining.

My views:
1. Old testament was written to the Jews and that includes prophecy.
Is there any doubt that God was dealing with the Jews in the Old Testament?

2. Jesus came to earth as the Jews Messiah, just as promised.
Is there any doubt that Jesus is the Jews Messiah?

3. Jesus said he came to fulfill all that had been written, God can not lie, so he did fulfill all.
Luk 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

4. Jesus told his disciples that the end of the age, his coming and the destruction of the temple would happen in their generation and it did. The destruction of the temple was the physical proof, rest was spiritual.
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Jesus saying that the temple would be destroyed.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Disciples asking sign of his coming, the end of the age.
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Daniel being told about the destruction of the temple and that he would stand with his kind (Jews) at the end of the age.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
The Jews that lived under law would now be judged on those things that were written according to their works.

The destruction of the temple happened in 70 AD, this is history.


5. Jesus told his disciples that they would sit around the throne with him, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. That happen in 70 AD.
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,

6. Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world" that made it a spiritual kingdom he was talking about.
Any doubt that Jesus said this?

7. Jesus said "he that believeth in me shall never die" and since he said it, I believe it. Think spiritual!
Any doubt that Jesus said this?

8. Paul said the church age would never end. I believe it!
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

There is much more but I ask you to peruse on these things for awhile.

 

[Cross Reference]

I will make this the short version since I am not sure which ones need more explaining.

My views:
1. Old testament was written to the Jews and that includes prophecy.
Is there any doubt that God was dealing with the Jews in the Old Testament?

2. Jesus came to earth as the Jews Messiah, just as promised.
Is there any doubt that Jesus is the Jews Messiah?

3. Jesus said he came to fulfill all that had been written, God can not lie, so he did fulfill all.
Luk 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

4. Jesus told his disciples that the end of the age, his coming and the destruction of the temple would happen in their generation and it did. The destruction of the temple was the physical proof, rest was spiritual.
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Jesus saying that the temple would be destroyed.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Disciples asking sign of his coming, the end of the age.
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Daniel being told about the destruction of the temple and that he would stand with his kind (Jews) at the end of the age.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
The Jews that lived under law would now be judged on those things that were written according to their works.

The destruction of the temple happened in 70 AD, this is history.


5. Jesus told his disciples that they would sit around the throne with him, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. That happen in 70 AD.
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,

6. Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world" that made it a spiritual kingdom he was talking about.
Any doubt that Jesus said this?

7. Jesus said "he that believeth in me shall never die" and since he said it, I believe it. Think spiritual!
Any doubt that Jesus said this?

8. Paul said the church age would never end. I believe it!
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

There is much more but I ask you to peruse on these things for awhile.

I deem engaging you or anyone with your "understanding" to be an exercise in futility serving only to further the promotion of anti-christ by giving you a pulpit from which to speak to persuade away from the real Jesus Christ in a way that will make it easier for those weak in their faith to embrace the one world government with anti-christ at its head, soon to arrive on the scene. To me, you are a type of warning sign for children in Christ to beware of.

 

[iamaberean]

I deem engaging you or anyone with your "understanding" to be an exercise in futility serving only to further the promotion of anti-christ by giving you a pulpit from which to speak to persuade away from the real Jesus Christ in a way that will make it easier for those weak in their faith to embrace the one world government with anti-christ at its head, soon to arrive on the scene. To me, you are a type of warning sign for children in Christ to beware of.

Did you even notice that I used God's word in my response to Psalmist?

 

[tetelestai]

the one world government with anti-christ at its head, soon to arrive on the scene.

That's straight out of Hal Lindsay's "The Late Great Planet Earth"

You do know that Futurists have been preaching this doomsday rubbish for over a hundred years?

 

[Cross Reference]

That's straight out of Hal Lindsay's "The Late Great Planet Earth"

So what??

You do know that Futurists have been preaching this doomsday rubbish for over a hundred years?

So what??

 

[Cross Reference]

Did you even notice that I used God's word in my response to Psalmist?

So what? Satan used God's written word against Jesus which is all you are doing in promoting anti-christ.

 

[tetelestai]

So what??
So what??

You keep listening to people who have been wrong 100% of the time.

How many more times do they need to be wrong before you realize you are listening to the wrong people?

 

[Cross Reference]

You keep listening to people who have been wrong 100% of the time.

Listening? I 'wrote' the book before Hal Lindsey & co., were born. No doubt, you as well.

How many more times do they need to be wrong before you realize you are listening to the wrong people?

Ah, yes, and you are listening to the right people??

 

[Danoh]

I will make this the short version since I am not sure which ones need more explaining....[/COLOR]

Interesting how you give yourself this benefit of the doubt he had to drag out of you towards him.

Must be the Spirit your superstition asserts leads you in contradiction to His Word doing so, through His Word, alone.

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

That's straight out of Hal Lindsay's "The Late Great Planet Earth"

You do know that Futurists have been preaching this doomsday rubbish for over a hundred years?

2 Peter 3

1 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder,
2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles,
3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.
4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."
5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,
6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.

 

[nikolai_42]

I will make this the short version since I am not sure which ones need more explaining.

My views:
1. Old testament was written to the Jews and that includes prophecy.
Is there any doubt that God was dealing with the Jews in the Old Testament?

2. Jesus came to earth as the Jews Messiah, just as promised.
Is there any doubt that Jesus is the Jews Messiah?

3. Jesus said he came to fulfill all that had been written, God can not lie, so he did fulfill all.
Luk 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

4. Jesus told his disciples that the end of the age, his coming and the destruction of the temple would happen in their generation and it did. The destruction of the temple was the physical proof, rest was spiritual.
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Jesus saying that the temple would be destroyed.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Disciples asking sign of his coming, the end of the age.
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Daniel being told about the destruction of the temple and that he would stand with his kind (Jews) at the end of the age.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
The Jews that lived under law would now be judged on those things that were written according to their works.

The destruction of the temple happened in 70 AD, this is history.


5. Jesus told his disciples that they would sit around the throne with him, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. That happen in 70 AD.
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,

6. Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world" that made it a spiritual kingdom he was talking about.
Any doubt that Jesus said this?

7. Jesus said "he that believeth in me shall never die" and since he said it, I believe it. Think spiritual!
Any doubt that Jesus said this?

8. Paul said the church age would never end. I believe it!
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

There is much more but I ask you to peruse on these things for awhile.

When do you believe the resurrection takes place? And what occurs at that point?

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I Corinthians 15:51-52

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I Thessalonians 4:14-17

Clearly, Paul thought he would be alive for the resurrection, but even he got that wrong (for even if it was in 70AD he didn't make it that far). And we read this in Revelation :

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-5

Verse 5 clearly puts a 1000 year (at minimum) hiatus between the ruling and reigning of the saints (with Christ) and the resurrection. Per Paul's descriptions above, the resurrection involves Christ's return.

Do you separate the resurrection from Christ's return?

EDIT : And note the contrast....those in verse 4 who refused the mark of the beast LIVED and reigned with Christ 1000 years. The rest of the dead LIVED NOT until that thousand years were up. So they actually lived....

It seems to me that the Preterist position requires this to mean the apostles (and other believers) were raised up and live for this 1000 years or more (starting in 70AD) while the others who die simply have to wait until that period is over. If this is all in the past, that is....

 

[HisServant]

Where do you think we are on God's clock concerning the return of Jesus and the gathering a way of the Church?

Do not afraid to state your position, it is your position. You do not have to explain pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.

What is the next thing that will bring the Jesus return and the gathering away.

Is there anything in the way to at this time that prevents it.

Of course God is on time every time.

The Second Coming is a favorite of mine and of those ate nursing home, because soon we'll be with Jesus and all our trials will be over -- Amen! and Amen!

Hallelujah I can hardly wait ... Even so come Lord Jesus!​

It makes absolutely no difference... your eschatology should not get in the way of/or be an excuse for doing what God has entrusted you to do.

Most of the 'second coming' churches I have attended in my life are the least effective churches I have ever been in because they see Christ returning any minute now and use it as an excuse for inaction.

Personally, I do not believe scripture supports what dispensationalists and 'second coming' churches believe unless you to some serious twisting of scripture.

But anyhow, on a daily basis, I try and live as God wants me to... whether the dispy's are right makes no difference to me.

 

[Cross Reference]

It makes absolutely no difference... your eschatology should not get in the way of/or be an excuse for doing what God has entrusted you to do.

And what would that be if you don't Him?

 

[HisServant]

And what would that be if you don't Him?

English please.

 

[Psalmist]

It makes absolutely no difference... your eschatology should not get in the way of/or be an excuse for doing what God has entrusted you to do.

I use nothing for an excuse to keep me doing what God has given me to do. I faithfully carry on nursing home ministry for over 30 years now and will continue to so as I wait for Jesus to return. ​

Most of the 'second coming' churches I have attended in my life are the least effective churches I have ever been in because they see Christ returning any minute now and use it as an excuse for inaction.

For us it is not an inaction thing, but a call to urgency concerning those who need salvation before it is do late.​

Personally, I do not believe scripture supports what dispensationalists and 'second coming' churches believe unless you to some serious twisting of scripture.

Scriptures support His coming back a second time, He even said so Himself.
You should start a thread titled "Twisted Scripture"​

But anyhow, on a daily basis, I try and live as God wants me to... whether the dispy's are right makes no difference to me.

By the grace of God we are who we are, in Christ and redeemed.​

 

[Cross Reference]

English please.

The word "know" escapes you? Try this for an elementary English lesson that might narrow down the problem: John 17:3 KJV.

 

[HisServant]

Scriptures support His coming back a second time, He even said so Himself.​

He gave a time frame for his return and it elapsed a long time ago.

Why don't you believe him?

 

[Cross Reference]

He gave a time frame for his return and it elapsed a long time ago.

Why don't you believe him?

Why don't you????

 

[HisServant]

Why don't you????

I do... he did come again, just in a way that you don't seem to like... just like the Jews didn't like when he showed up on the scene during his time.

Soon can not mean 2000 years.

Also, no one is living right now that was alive when he was here the first time.. so he HAD to have returned already.

And don't give me that generation means race translation issue crap... that is utterly dishonest.

 

[Cross Reference]

I do... he did come again, just in a way that you don't seem to like... just like the Jews didn't like when he showed up on the scene during his time.

Soon can not mean 2000 years.

Also, no one is living right now that was alive when he was here the first time.. so he HAD to have returned already.

And don't give me that generation means race translation issue crap... that is utterly dishonest.

Who saw Jesus when He returned, if as you say He did, and why didn't He stay around awhile that we might know at least by history recording it all?