Jesus, Paul and the Law

[God's Truth]

Like Paul, I wish you would mutilate yourself rather than preach your heresy.


Galatians 3:1-14
[1]Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross.
[2]Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ.
[3]How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?
[4]Have you experienced so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it?
[5]I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.
[6]In the same way, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”
[7]The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God.
[8]What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.”
[9]So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.
[10]But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”
[11]So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”
[12]This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”
[13]But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
[14]Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith.
Galatians 5:7-10,12
[7]You were running the race so well. Who has held you back from following the truth?
[8]It certainly isn’t God, for he is the one who called you to freedom.
[9]This false teaching is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough!
[10]I am trusting the Lord to keep you from believing false teachings. God will judge that person, whoever he is, who has been confusing you.
[12]I just wish that those troublemakers who want to mutilate you by circumcision would mutilate themselves.

That s about being talked into being justified by the old works of the law which circumcision of the flesh was the sign and seal.

I don't preach circumcision.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That s about being talked into being justified by the old works of the law which circumcision of the flesh was the sign and seal.

I don't preach circumcision.

Circumcision is cutting off the flesh (literally).

The law is cutting off the flesh symbolically, but given the opportunity, will do so literally.

You teach circumcision (not literal cutting off the flesh, but symbolic), because you teach the law, when Christians have already died to the law and their flesh. You teach a different Gospel wgich is not another, because you teach "you must keep the law."

 

[MennoSota]

That s about being talked into being justified by the old works of the law which circumcision of the flesh was the sign and seal.

I don't preach circumcision.

Sure you do. You preach justification by works, which is what the Judaisers taught. Your teaching is parallel with theirs. Satan is working in you. May God break the chains that Satan has upon you. I have no desire to have you spend eternity in hell.

 

[God's Truth]

Circumcision is cutting off the flesh (literally).

The law is cutting off the flesh symbolically, but given the opportunity, will do so literally.

You teach circumcision (not literal cutting off the flesh, but symbolic), because you teach the law, when Christians have already died to the law and their flesh. You teach a different Gospel wgich is not another, because you teach "you must keep the law."

What do you think happens when a person repents of their their sins, promises to sin no more, to die to sins and live to please Jesus?

 

[JudgeRightly]

What do you think happens when a person repents of their their sins, promises to sin no more, to die to sins and live to please Jesus?

Nothing, because that isn't what saves. They will go on sinning, being a hypocrite, and Christ will say come Judgment day, "Depart from me, for I never knew you."

Why? Because they didn't confess the Lord Jesus with their mouth and believe God raised Him from the dead.

Everything you said must come after that, otherwise it's meaningless.

 

[God's Truth]

Sure you do. You preach justification by works, which is what the Judaisers taught.

Under the old law, the people had to be justified to be a child of God.
God gave them certain works to do to purify themselves.
The people had to do all that purifying/cleaning/justifying themselves.
They had to do different external baths before they could go to the temple where God's Spirit was, they had to adhere to a special diet, and they had a priest who performed many things with sacrificed animals, to clean the people.
Since Jesus shed his blood on the cross, he is the Sacrificed Lamb once and for all; and his blood cleans us, and all we have to do is have faith that it does, but we still have to do what Jesus taught while he walked the earth, and that was to repent and believe in him.
No one has to get circumcised and offer animals anymore and go to the temple to be near God, for Jesus is our circumcision and we become the temple.
We still have to do what Jesus says to do when he walked the earth. We have to have faith, which Jesus taught. We have to repent of our sins; and we have to forgive others.

Your teaching is parallel with theirs. Satan is working in you. May God break the chains that Satan has upon you. I have no desire to have you spend eternity in hell.

Who but Satan would be behind preaching we don't have to obey Jesus?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Under the old law, the people had to be justified to be a child of God.
God gave them certain works to do to purify themselves.
The people had to do all that purifying/cleaning/justifying themselves.
They had to do different external baths before they could go to the temple where God's Spirit was, they had to do adhere to a special diet, and they had a priest who performed many things with sacrificed animals, to clean the people.
Since Jesus shed on the cross, he is the Sacrificed Lamb once and for all; and his blood cleans us, and all we have to do is have faith that it does, but we still have to do what Jesus taught while he walked the earth, and that was to repent and believe in him.
No one has to get circumcised and offer animals anymore and go to the temple to be near God, for Jesus is our circumcision and we become the temple.
We still have to do what Jesus says to do when he walked the earth. We have to have faith, which Jesus taught. We have to repent of our sins; and we have to forgive others.



Who but Satan would be behind preaching we don't have to obey Jesus?

Israel had to keep not just the ceremonial laws, but ALL THE LAWS, ceremonial AND moral and civil. Jesus says to keep the WHOLE law, not just the parts you want to keep otherwise you're guilty of all of it.

Paul says DON'T keep the law, because if you keep the law, you're cursed, because if you keep one law, you must keep them all.

 

[God's Truth]

Nothing, because that isn't what saves. They will go on sinning, being a hypocrite, and Christ will say come Judgment day, "Depart from me, for I never knew you."

Why? Because they didn't confess the Lord Jesus with their mouth and believe God raised Him from the dead.

Everything you said must come after that, otherwise it's meaningless.

If one confesses with their mouth that Jesus is their Lord, then they had better obeyed by confessing and repenting of their sins.

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

 

[JudgeRightly]

If one confesses with their mouth that Jesus is their Lord, then they had better obeyed by confessing and repenting of their sins.

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

"they had better..."

That's law. You're putting a burden on believers whom not even the fathers of Israel couldn't bear.

You're trying to get people to put themselves under a curse, to get people to cut off their flesh to be holy, which isn't possible for man. Only Christ who is God is holy, and he already fulfilled the law. Yet you insist on removing the nails from Christ's hands and saying "no, let me keep the law so that I can be holy."

 

[God's Truth]

Israel had to keep not just the ceremonial laws, but ALL THE LAWS, ceremonial AND moral and civil.

And James explains that if you obey by not stealing from your neighbor which is credited to you as love, but you broke another law against your neighbor like commit adultery with your neighbor, then you have broken the 'love your neighbor' command.
Try to listen to what I say instead of hardening yourself and so not getting it.

Jesus says to keep the WHOLE law, not just the parts you want to keep otherwise you're guilty of all of it.

Jesus did not teach when to get circumcised of the flesh, what various baths to take if you had a discharge, or when you sat where someone with a natural emission sat. Jesus didn't teach to bring animals to the priest. Jesus knew he would fulfill all the cleaning/purification/ceremonial laws.
Think for yourself if it is right to say we don't have to obey God anymore and if we do then we are not saved. I believed in God and Jesus since a small child, but I did not know him and was not saved until I started to obey him.

Paul says DON'T keep the law, because if you keep the law, you're cursed, because if you keep one law, you must keep them all.

Paul was not talking about don't obey to get saved. Paul was talking about don't do the purification works of the law, i.e. circumcision.
You are badly mistaken for saying Paul said to believe and be careful not to obey so that you can be saved.

 

[God's Truth]

"they had better..."

That's law. You're putting a burden on believers whom not even the fathers of Israel couldn't bear.

You're trying to get people to put themselves under a curse, to get people to cut off their flesh to be holy, which isn't possible for man. Only Christ who is God is holy, and he already fulfilled the law. Yet you insist on removing the nails from Christ's hands and saying "no, let me keep the law so that I can be holy."

Just listen to the error that you say!

You say it is a curse to obey Jesus' words!

If you would only not harden your heart to what I am saying.

Jesus' words are Spirit and full of life.

Jesus came with grace, he taught how to have faith in him and that forgiveness comes from him. Jesus teaches what kind of heart to have so that he could live in it.

 

[MennoSota]

Under the old law, the people had to be justified to be a child of God.
God gave them certain works to do to purify themselves.
The people had to do all that purifying/cleaning/justifying themselves.
They had to do different external baths before they could go to the temple where God's Spirit was, they had to adhere to a special diet, and they had a priest who performed many things with sacrificed animals, to clean the people.
Since Jesus shed his blood on the cross, he is the Sacrificed Lamb once and for all; and his blood cleans us, and all we have to do is have faith that it does, but we still have to do what Jesus taught while he walked the earth, and that was to repent and believe in him.
No one has to get circumcised and offer animals anymore and go to the temple to be near God, for Jesus is our circumcision and we become the temple.
We still have to do what Jesus says to do when he walked the earth. We have to have faith, which Jesus taught. We have to repent of our sins; and we have to forgive others.



Who but Satan would be behind preaching we don't have to obey Jesus?

You keep adding works as your means of maintaining salvation. You nullify grace. You are a Judaiser by your own comments. God's children can see your error. They realize your words do not come from God.

 

[God's Truth]

You keep adding works as your means of maintaining salvation. You nullify grace. You are a Judaiser by your own comments. God's children can see your error. They realize your words do not come from God.

Jesus says his works are light and easy and not burdensome.

Paul did not preach against what Jesus says to do.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Just listen to the error that you say!

You say it is a curse to obey Jesus' words!

If you would only not harden your heart to what I am saying.

Jesus' words are Spirit and full of life.

Jesus came with grace, he taught how to have faith in him and that forgiveness comes from him. Jesus teaches what kind of heart to have so that he could live in it.

O foolish GT! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed to you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish, GT? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify you by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

(Galatians 3)

 

[MennoSota]

Jesus says his works are light and easy and not burdensome.

Paul did not preach against what Jesus says to do.

Read verse 27 of Matthew 11. No works necessary. We will do good works because God's gift of faith causes us to do good works. But good works are not demanded in order for God's chosen children to remain adopted by God.
All God, nothing of myself.

Matthew 11:25-30
[25]At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike.
[26]Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way!
[27]“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
[28]Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.
[29]Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
[30]For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

 

[MennoSota]

Do you finally get it now that Paul taught what Jesus taught, and it is the same, it is to obey Jesus and repent of your sins.

'Repent' doesn't mean 'turn to God'.
'Repent' means to repent of your sins and have faith is to have faith that Jesus blood washes those sins away.
False doctrine will stop people from being saved.
Faith alone teachers hinder and stop many people from getting saved.

Dead men cannot repent. Dead men will not repent. Those whom God makes alive can repent. These are the ones whom God gives the gift of faith so that they might believe, recognize their sin and repent.
Only the elect can repent. The unredeemed will die in their trespasses and sins.

 

[God's Truth]

O foolish GT! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed to you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish, GT? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify you by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

(Galatians 3)

They were talked into observing the old law's special days and they were talked into getting circumcised in the flesh.

 

[God's Truth]

Read verse 27 of Matthew 11. No works necessary. We will do good works because God's gift of faith causes us to do good works. But good works are not demanded in order for God's chosen children to remain adopted by God.
All God, nothing of myself.

Matthew 11:25-30
[25]At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike.
[26]Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way!
[27]“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
[28]Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.
[29]Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
[30]For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

Do you really think that Jesus is saying you don't have to weary yourself with not murdering and committing adultery anymore?

 

[MennoSota]

Paul taught the same thing as Jesus.

Jesus taught believe and obey him.

Paul taught believe and obey Jesus.

You are badly mistaken.

Jesus taught that all whom He chooses will know God. Jesus taught that the Father gave him those who would be saved. Jesus taught that the sheep hear the shepherd's voice.

Matthew 11:27

[27]“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

GT, your voice is that of the thief.

 

[MennoSota]

Do you really think that Jesus is saying you don't have to weary yourself with not murdering and committing adultery anymore?

Did you read Matthew 11:27?
Unless Jesus chooses you, your burdens remain. Unless Jesus takes off your burdens, your burdens remain.
All God. None of me.
Matthew 11:27
[27]“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
[28]Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.
[29]Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
[30]For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”