Jesus, Paul and the Law

God's Truth

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True believers uphold the law. See Romans 3:31.

We are not without a law.

There was a change to that old law, see Hebrews 7:12.

That changed old law is our new law.

We are no longer under the old law; we have the law written on our hearts and minds, see Hebrews 10:16.

All those who are saved have to obey the law, the new law, and the new law is in the New Covenant.

The new law is the law of the Spirit. See Romans 8:2; it is the perfect law, see James 1:25.

It is the law that gives freedom; see James 2:12.

It is the LAW that requires faith; see Romans 3:27.

It is the law of Christ; see 1 Corinthians 9:21, and Galatians 6:2.

We always have to obey God and we have a new law.
 

God's Truth

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That's not what the Bible teaches. That is your own heresy speaking.
Dead men cannot choose. Dead men are dead in their trespasses and sins. God MUST choose to give them life or they will remain dead into eternity.
The Bible says that "no one seeks God, not even one." This means that 100% of humans are going to hell...unless God chooses by His Sovereign will to give the human life...in Christ.
There is no other way. You CANNOT earn your way into God's good favor. This is a fact presented in scripture. Please stop your false teaching.

Not all are dead. Jesus says let the dead bury their dead, and then he said you come follow me.

People fall for the teachings of false teachers.
 

JudgeRightly

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True believers uphold the law. See Romans 3:31.

We are not without a law.

There was a change to that old law, see Hebrews 7:12.

That changed old law is our new law.

We are no longer under the old law; we have the law written on our hearts and minds, see Hebrews 10:16.

All those who are saved have to obey the law, the new law, and the new law is in the New Covenant.

The new law is the law of the Spirit. See Romans 8:2; it is the perfect law, see James 1:25.

It is the law that gives freedom; see James 2:12.

It is the LAW that requires faith; see Romans 3:27.

It is the law of Christ; see 1 Corinthians 9:21, and Galatians 6:2.

We always have to obey God and we have a new law.

No, GT.

O foolish GT! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed to you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish, GT? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify you by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

(Galatians 3)

This is talking about all laws.
 

MennoSota

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God choose those who obey.

Acts 8:21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.

Acts 8:22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.

Do you recognize this scripture:

"I assure you," He said, "unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

There are so many more.


Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

We have to acknowledge Jesus before others.

Matthew 10:32 "Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.

We have to repent to be saved.

Matthew 3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."

We have to call on the Lord to be saved.

Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'


Jesus, who knows everyone’s heart chooses those he accepts, see Acts 15:8 NIV.


Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Cornelius feared God and did what was right, see Acts 10:22.

Psalm 50:23 Whoever sacrifices a thank offering honors Me, and whoever orders his conduct, I will show him the salvation of God."
Do you always butcher God's word like this? My goodness you are biblically illiterate. Here's Matthew 18:1-4.
18 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them 3 and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
In every verse you quoted there is never a statement that says the person will repent by their own will. Repentance is only something God accomplishes in the elect, not in the unregenerate, unreconciled person.
Your one sentence here and one sentence there prooftext for your heresy is typical of false teachers. The context of scripture passages proves you utterly wrong.
 

JudgeRightly

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No way, none of the scriptures anywhere in the Bible say w are not to repent or we will stay condemned, as you say to me. hahahahahaaaa

I gave you a passage that tells one how to be saved. It does not mention repentance. It even says don't keep the law, nor does it specify what laws not to keep. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED TO SHOW THAT YOU'RE WRONG!?
 

God's Truth

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That's not what the Bible teaches. That is your own heresy speaking.
Dead men cannot choose. Dead men are dead in their trespasses and sins. God MUST choose to give them life or they will remain dead into eternity.
The Bible says that "no one seeks God, not even one." This means that 100% of humans are going to hell...unless God chooses by His Sovereign will to give the human life...in Christ.
There is no other way. You CANNOT earn your way into God's good favor. This is a fact presented in scripture. Please stop your false teaching.

God doesn't save men who hate Him and don't believe Him.

That is insanity.

God says He saves those who believe and obey.
 

God's Truth

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I gave you a passage that tells one how to be saved. It does not mention repentance. It even says don't keep the law, nor does it specify what laws not to keep. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED TO SHOW THAT YOU'RE WRONG!?

What does this say:

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
 

MennoSota

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God doesn't save men who hate Him and don't believe Him.

That is insanity.

God says He saves those who believe and obey.

Yes He does!!!
Do you know who Saul was on the road to Damascus? He hated God (Jesus). He had no belief in God (Jesus).
No dead sinner can believe or obey. They are rebels from birth, fighting God and God's Sovereignty. They are just like you!
God ALWAYS saves men who hate Him and don't believe. He saves those who are incapable of obeying or believing.
You are so man-centered, you have no connection to the reason why God (Jesus) condescended to earth and gave Himself as a sacrifice to save sinners.
How depraved your mind is GT.
But, God is in the business of saving us depraved humans. There is hope for you, if God so chooses to adopt you.
 

glorydaz

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That's not what the Bible teaches. That is your own heresy speaking.
Dead men cannot choose. Dead men are dead in their trespasses and sins. God MUST choose to give them life or they will remain dead into eternity.
The Bible says that "no one seeks God, not even one." This means that 100% of humans are going to hell...unless God chooses by His Sovereign will to give the human life...in Christ.
There is no other way. You CANNOT earn your way into God's good favor. This is a fact presented in scripture. Please stop your false teaching.

Right, you cannot earn your way into salvation, but you can believe the Gospel which is the power of
God unto salvation. How can they believe unless they hear, and how can they hear without a preacher? God does not believe for us.

So, we are not so dead that we can't hear. We are condemned and waiting on death row. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
 

God's Truth

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Yes He does!!!
Do you know who Saul was on the road to Damascus? He hated God (Jesus). He had no belief in God (Jesus).
No dead sinner can believe or obey. They are rebels from birth, fighting God and God's Sovereignty. They are just like you!
God ALWAYS saves men who hate Him and don't believe. He saves those who are incapable of obeying or believing.
You are so man-centered, you have no connection to the reason why God (Jesus) condescended to earth and gave Himself as a sacrifice to save sinners.
How depraved your mind is GT.
But, God is in the business of saving us depraved humans. There is hope for you, if God so chooses to adopt you.

Paul wasn't saved yet on that road to Damascus. He had to do some things first.
He was tortured with blindness and fasted to where he did not eat or drink for three days.
He spent that time praying.
Can you imagine what Paul said in those prayers?
Oh how he must have wept and cried out for forgiveness.

Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
 

MennoSota

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What does this say:

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Do you see how you distort Paul's words in Acts 20? Do you know what grace is?
Acts of the Apostles 20:16-32
[16]Paul had decided to sail on past Ephesus, for he didn’t want to spend any more time in the province of Asia. He was hurrying to get to Jerusalem, if possible, in time for the Festival of Pentecost.
[17]But when we landed at Miletus, he sent a message to the elders of the church at Ephesus, asking them to come and meet him.
[18]When they arrived he declared, “You know that from the day I set foot in the province of Asia until now
[19]I have done the Lord’s work humbly and with many tears. I have endured the trials that came to me from the plots of the Jews.
[20]I never shrank back from telling you what you needed to hear, either publicly or in your homes.
[21]I have had one message for Jews and Greeks alike—the necessity of repenting from sin and turning to God, and of having faith in our Lord Jesus.
[22]“And now I am bound by the Spirit to go to Jerusalem. I don’t know what awaits me,
[23]except that the Holy Spirit tells me in city after city that jail and suffering lie ahead.
[24]But my life is worth nothing to me unless I use it for finishing the work assigned me by the Lord Jesus—the work of telling others the Good News about the wonderful grace of God.
[25]“And now I know that none of you to whom I have preached the Kingdom will ever see me again.
[26]I declare today that I have been faithful. If anyone suffers eternal death, it’s not my fault,
[27]for I didn’t shrink from declaring all that God wants you to know.
[28]“So guard yourselves and God’s people. Feed and shepherd God’s flock—his church, purchased with his own blood—over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you as elders.
[29]I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will come in among you after I leave, not sparing the flock.
[30]Even some men from your own group will rise up and distort the truth in order to draw a following.
[31]Watch out! Remember the three years I was with you—my constant watch and care over you night and day, and my many tears for you.
[32]“And now I entrust you to God and the message of his grace that is able to build you up and give you an inheritance with all those he has set apart for himself.
Notice what comes before your quote in Acts 26..
Acts of the Apostles 26:9-29
[/QUOTE][9]“I used to believe that I ought to do everything I could to oppose the very name of Jesus the Nazarene.
[10]Indeed, I did just that in Jerusalem. Authorized by the leading priests, I caused many believers there to be sent to prison. And I cast my vote against them when they were condemned to death.
[11]Many times I had them punished in the synagogues to get them to curse Jesus. I was so violently opposed to them that I even chased them down in foreign cities.
[12]“One day I was on such a mission to Damascus, armed with the authority and commission of the leading priests.
[13]About noon, Your Majesty, as I was on the road, a light from heaven brighter than the sun shone down on me and my companions.
[14]We all fell down, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is useless for you to fight against my will.’
[15]“‘Who are you, lord?’ I asked.“And the Lord replied, ‘I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting.
[16]Now get to your feet! For I have appeared to you to appoint you as my servant and witness. Tell people that you have seen me, and tell them what I will show you in the future.
[17]And I will rescue you from both your own people and the Gentiles. Yes, I am sending you to the Gentiles
[18]to open their eyes, so they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. Then they will receive forgiveness for their sins and be given a place among God’s people, who are set apart by faith in me.’
[19]“And so, King Agrippa, I obeyed that vision from heaven.
[20]I preached first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that all must repent of their sins and turn to God—and prove they have changed by the good things they do.
[21]Some Jews arrested me in the Temple for preaching this, and they tried to kill me.
[22]But God has protected me right up to this present time so I can testify to everyone, from the least to the greatest. I teach nothing except what the prophets and Moses said would happen—
[23]that the Messiah would suffer and be the first to rise from the dead, and in this way announce God’s light to Jews and Gentiles alike.”
[24]Suddenly, Festus shouted, “Paul, you are insane. Too much study has made you crazy!”
[25]But Paul replied, “I am not insane, Most Excellent Festus. What I am saying is the sober truth.
[26]And King Agrippa knows about these things. I speak boldly, for I am sure these events are all familiar to him, for they were not done in a corner!
[27]King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do—”
[28]Agrippa interrupted him. “Do you think you can persuade me to become a Christian so quickly?”
[29]Paul replied, “Whether quickly or not, I pray to God that both you and everyone here in this audience might become the same as I am, except for these chains.” [/QUOTE]
Only God can bring a person to repentance by making them alive. We preach repentance, but only God can take a dead man, make them alive and then cause them to repent. How do we know this? God tells us in Ephesians 2:1-10 and God shows us by how He saved Saul/Paul.
GT, you are utterly confused.
 

God's Truth

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Paul HAD PEOPLE, MEN AND WOMEN DRAGGED out of their HOMES and put in jail where they were tortured and no doubt killed; and you think God saved him without so much as a please forgive me?

Desire God's truth and read and believe.
 

MennoSota

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Right, you cannot earn your way into salvation, but you can believe the Gospel which is the power of
God unto salvation. How can they believe unless they hear, and how can they hear without a preacher? God does not believe for us.

So, we are not so dead that we can't hear. We are condemned and waiting on death row. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

How did Lazarus, while in the tomb, hear Jesus voice?
God must give life to a person before they can hear His voice and believe.
God must do these things. They cannot be done by human effort.
Those whom God has chosen to make alive will hear the Master's voice and be given faith to believe.
God does not tell his saints who He has chosen to save so we send out a general message of repent. But most will consider it foolishness, just like Felix and Festus did when Paul gave them the meassage. There are the elect, however, whom God will give life, open their ears, open their eyes, bring to faith and cause to repent. These are the saints whom God chose before the foundation of the world. They will be brought to eternal life.
When God has called all His elect unto Himself, He will then come and condemn the world and all the unregenerate in this world. There will be no mercy.
 

MennoSota

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Paul HAD PEOPLE, MEN AND WOMEN DRAGGED out of their HOMES and put in jail where they were tortured and no doubt killed; and you think God saved him without so much as a please forgive me?

Desire God's truth and read and believe.

Yep.
Paul did not do any of the requirements you state must be done for God to save a person. Paul proves your claim to be utter nonsense.
It was not until God saved Paul and gave him faith that Paul could repent. You have the process all backward and man-centered. You are not Godward.
 

God's Truth

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How did Lazarus, while in the tomb, hear Jesus voice?
You heard some false preacher say we are all dead just as Lazarus was literally dead.
You listened and believed false teachers but now you need to see for yourself.
God must give life to a person before they can hear His voice and believe.
Anyone who wants to they can hear and believe.
Jesus says so!

John 7:37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.
God must do these things. They cannot be done by human effort.
Those whom God has chosen to make alive will hear the Master's voice and be given faith to believe.
You are getting times mixed up.
Jesus came first for those who were already God's.
When Jesus was lifted up, then all could come to him, even those who helped have him crucified!
God does not tell his saints who He has chosen to save so we send out a general message of repent. But most will consider it foolishness,
What?! God does not consider it foolishness to obey Jesus!
just like Felix and Festus did when Paul gave them the meassage. There are the elect, however, whom God will give life, open their ears, open their eyes, bring to faith and cause to repent. These are the saints whom God chose before the foundation of the world. They will be brought to eternal life.
When God has called all His elect unto Himself, He will then come and condemn the world and all the unregenerate in this world. There will be no mercy.

God chooses those who believe and obey Him.
 

God's Truth

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Yep.
Paul did not do any of the requirements you state
How ignorant. I told you Paul did those things and he did.
must be done for God to save a person. Paul proves your claim to be utter nonsense.
It was not until God saved Paul and gave him faith that Paul could repent. You have the process all backward and man-centered. You are not Godward.

Paul says he was born unnaturally. That does not take away from the fact that Paul had to obey Jesus and repent before he was saved.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
How did Lazarus, while in the tomb, hear Jesus voice?
God must give life to a person before they can hear His voice and believe.
God must do these things. They cannot be done by human effort.

Lazarus was physically dead.

Those whom God has chosen to make alive will hear the Master's voice and be given faith to believe.
God does not tell his saints who He has chosen to save so we send out a general message of repent. But most will consider it foolishness, just like Felix and Festus did when Paul gave them the meassage. There are the elect, however, whom God will give life, open their ears, open their eyes, bring to faith and cause to repent. These are the saints whom God chose before the foundation of the world. They will be brought to eternal life.
When God has called all His elect unto Himself, He will then come and condemn the world and all the unregenerate in this world. There will be no mercy.

Nope, God called for all men to repent (which is to turn from unbelief to belief). It's the goodness and kindness of God that leads men to repentance.

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?​

Man was created with the knowledge of God in our very being. When we are absent from Him, we yearn to be a part of Him. We cannot find what we were created for in this world. When we see His great goodness, we are drawn to Him...which we find when we hear the Gospel.
 

MennoSota

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Now I saw in my dream, that the highway up which Christian was to go, was fenced on either side with a wall, and that wall was called Salvation. Isaiah 26:1. Up this way, therefore, did burdened Christian run, but not without great difficulty, because of the load on his back. He ran thus till he came at a place somewhat ascending; and upon that place stood a cross, and a little below, in the bottom, a sepulchre. So I saw in my dream, that just as Christian came up with the cross, his burden loosed from off his shoulders, and fell from off his back, and began to tumble, and so continued to do till it came to the mouth of the sepulchre, where it fell in, and I saw it no more. Then was Christian glad and lightsome, and said with a merry heart, “He hath given me rest by his sorrow, and life by his death.” Then he stood still a while, to look and wonder; for it was very surprising to him that the sight of the cross should thus ease him of his burden. He looked, therefore, and looked again, even till the springs that were in his head sent the waters down his cheeks. Zech. 12:10. Now as he stood looking and weeping, behold, three Shining Ones came to him, and saluted him with, “Peace be to thee.” So the first said to him, “Thy sins be forgiven thee,” Mark 2:5; the second stripped him of his rags, and clothed him with change of raiment, Zech. 3:4; the third also set a mark on his forehead, Eph. 1:13, and gave him a roll with a seal upon it, which he bid him look on as he ran, and that he should give it in at the celestial gate: so they went their way. Then Christian gave three leaps for joy, and went on singing, “Thus far did I come laden with my sin, Nor could aught ease the grief that I was in, Till I came hither. What a place is this! Must here be the beginning of my bliss? Must here the burden fall from off my back? Must here the strings that bound it to me crack? Blest cross! blest sepulchre! blest rather be The Man that there was put to shame for me!”
 
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