There remains sin...or is sin abolished? So there remains a law to point out sin...
Jesus, Paul and the Law
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
- Status
There remains sin...or is sin abolished? So there remains a law to point out sin...
To try to keep the law or to be subject to the law is a denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.
In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law for us, Matthew 5:18 and then abolishes it, Ephesians 2:15. To be under the law or subject to it is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.
ummm...no...to try and keep the law is BECAUSE of the gospel and justification by faith...one is reborn first and then lives...differently than before...out of gratitude...
not all is fulfilled as heaven and earth have not passed...
“till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.”
yup... stiffnecked as usual you are...didn’t think you would go and study what is the difference between Law and ordinance
Or even between what it means to be under the law and standing on it...establishing it...
The law and the ordinances are all the same thing, it is all law. Anything that tells you to do something or not to do something is law. In our name and on our behalf Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it.
No one is born again without hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.
In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law for us and atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. We are complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10. This is why we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
wow really? So when I pay my traffic ticket there are no more traffic laws?
so He told His disciples to put the boat in the water...lucky you if you are a fisherman...lol
But you think the Law was abolished...so what establishes that He is our savior and from what
so what authorizes Him to be Savior? What quarantee allows us to be His...live in His House?
You who wish to be lawless can have no covenant...no contract for you...the Promis is on condition
what is this without the law? Without law why the need to be born again at all?
Even this text is according to law...there remain conditions...hear AND believe...both of which Satan has done...surely there is more...
Oh sure justified indeed...is why we wish to “do this and live”...be more like Him less like our former selves...
The righteous live by faith...so the faithful live right...
I notice that you seldom quote Paul. Can it be that you don't believe Paul? Trying to be like Jesus will lead to a life of legalism. I think you are already there.
watching you cut yourself with the sword makes me fearful to give you more of the Word...
Oh I believe Paul but my Paul is different than your Paul...my Paul kept keeping the Sabbath, the festivals, and could claim in his own defense he did nothing against the Law...in fact he was zealous for the traditions of his fathers...
Here’s my Paul rockin’ da casbah:
19Paul greeted them and recounted one by one the things God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
20When they heard this, they glorified God. Then they said to Paul, “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the Law. 21But they are under the impression that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or observe our customs.
Imagine jew’s concern that Paul could possibly be teaching against the law...He voluntarily took a vow to show otherwise that these false witnesses were wrong...as well you now are...both a false witness and well...wrong.
Here is a valuable study on why Paul would NOT be living one way and teaching another...
http://www.fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html
After reading this prayerfully perhaps you can understand the difficulty Paul had in establishing the law as Satan sought to counterfeit this fledgling movement with not only false witnesses but flooding it with false teachers and other gospels...
you are thinking trying to be like Him is in order to earn His love/salvation...that is legalism...it’s better understood that those who love Him follow Him/His way...that is not legalism and highly recommended, instructed and exemplified...
where is that again? Obeying His commandments as “here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF His Son”...in other words keep His faith practice...notice again it is NOT have faith IN Him...
Do this and live...and now in Him we can...certainly want to...
Paul encourages you to run and finish the race...it aint over yet...heaven and earth have not passed away
BTW-races have rules...
If you believed Paul you would quote his scriptures, you quote nothing, which makes me wonder if you are a believer. Most of what you are saying has no scriptural basis. Its just hot air.
Paul did not observe days, months or times, Galatians 4:10. Because those were things of the law.
Paul said that if you are under the law you are under a curse, Galatians 3:10.
There is a Christian life to be lived, but it is not lived according to laws and rules. it is lived by faith in Jesus and his Gospel, Galatians 2:20.
Righteousness does not come by the law, Galatians 2:21.
posting texts doesn’t mean you understand Paul...you show that actually
what Celtics observed were not what he observed...he observed Sabbaths and feasts even instructing we keep the feast with new unleavened bread of spirit and truth as well...
for NOT keeping them a curse removed because we are in Him keeping them as He did
faith not just in Him but keeping the faith OF Him...what was His faith? To obey His Father...His Law
Right...law keeping comes after...first faith then works...so your Heavenly Father can see them
Others see you...and in Him if you live as He did
Again and again and again, that speaks of the "works of the law", you simply do not wish to believe Paul when he says so because that means you would need to study what he means in more depth to understand what he is really saying. The "works of the law" concern the former Sanhedrin "Jewish" understandings of the Torah and their dogmas, ("dogmasin", as already shown to you twice in this thread alone, which you choose to ignore because it refutes your false doctrine), and those dogmas were written in decrees and ordinances just as Paul says. In other words the "works of the law" concern the literal-physical carnal interpretations of the Torah which the Master himself refuted in all his parables, allegories, sayings, idioms, and teachings in the Gospel accounts. And because the Father by mighty Voice approved the Testimony of His Son, and proved it by raising him from the dead, the dogmasin of the Sanhedrin and the rulers of the Jews have been annulled, nailed to the stake, put to death with the flesh because they were wrong, and based on flesh-man interpretations of the holy and spiritual Word of the Father. In essence you are therefore only here fighting and arguing for your own dogmasin, and not for the real truth, because when the truth is shown to you over and over again you ignore it and therefore deny it.
The law in the Bible is anything that tells you to do something or not to do something. Judaism is a religion of law that has been abolished by Jesus, Ephesians 2:15. The reason that God raised Jesus from the dead was because Jesus victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
Where is your scripture?
:rotfl: Are you really that blind? This is the third time in this thread alone:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
Paul said that the law has been abolished, Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15.
#56
Ephesians 2:15 W/H
15 την εχθραν εν τη σαρκι αυτου τον νομον των εντολων εν δογμασιν καταργησας ινα τους δυο κτιση εν αυτω εις ενα καινον ανθρωπον ποιων ειρηνην
G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n.
1. that which is supposed as good or which seems right (whether it actually is or not).
2. (concisely) an opinion on a matter.
3. (by conclusion) a decree or ordinance (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical).
[from the base of G1380]
KJV: decree, ordinance
Root(s): G1380
See also: G1379
δογμασιν = dogmasin = dogma(s)
δογμασιν = Sanhedrin rulings, written decrees, and [man's] interpretations of the Torah
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
The law was abolished by the death of Christ.
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us and took it out of the way NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS" Colossians 2:14
Colossians 2:14 W/H
14 εξαλειψας το καθ ημων χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν ο ην υπεναντιον ημιν και αυτο ηρκεν εκ του μεσου προσηλωσας αυτο τω σταυρω
LOL, there it is again Robert . . . DOGMASIN, the traditions of men, the faulty interpretations and written decrees of the commandments and rulings of the Sanhedrin. It is no different from the dogmas and rulings of the RCC, ("church dogma"). You and 95% of mainstream modern Christianity have jumped the gun and automatically assumed that Paul speaks of "abolishing the entire Torah". If you had actually done your own research you would have easily found these things, (moreover this has already been shown to you multiple times before now!), but many people never go looking for what might prove them wrong, no, because the herd does not genuinely desire the truth at any cost, but rather only go looking for ways to edify themselves and enhance the facade which they choose to hide behind. The two main passages used in your OP dissertation are once again terribly misunderstood by yourself, (and I say once again because of the many times this has already been brought to your attention).
Look up dogma in the Septuagint: it appears NOWHERE in the Torah, (but is used in Esther and Daniel for the decrees and ordinances of kings, "the decrees of the Medes and Persians", etc.,).
Not to mention the ten or so other repeat threads of yours touting the same error.
It is you who does not believe the writings of Paul and instead choose to believe your own twisted corruption of the writings of Paul. Moreover, as we all know the passage so well, Peter tells you that you twist them to your own destruction. I certainly do believe the writings of Paul and that is why I am able to use them to refute your erroneous usage of them.
If you believed Paul you would quote Paul. Paul said that the law made him sin, Romans 7:7-12.
If you believed Paul you would quote much more of him, as I do, (and many others here), and you would stop cherry picking from his writings and taking from them only those things which you think support your religion after you have ripped them out of their contexts. And yes, you do serve a religion, the religion of the supreme Robert Pate who tells God which passages and verses are allowed and which are abolished in the mind of Robert Pate and the Robert Pate religion to end all religions, (lol).
Once upon a little space in time a long time ago there was a certain critter named Roberto Pateo, and as he walked along his merry way a fiery hellfire wild man of a preacher jumped out of the bushes and screamed "the Gospel" at him, saying, "God died for your sins, just belieeeeve it, and confesssss it, and all of the righteousness of God will automatically be imputed unto you: and you therefore shall be "saved" for all eternity from the fiery everlasting hellfire of Gehenna! Do you "belieeeeve"? Just assent, all you need to do is say yessss!" So Roberto Pateo, scared out of his wits, and his knees knocking like Belshazzar, quickly assented, for it was the easy and fast thing to do, and he answered, "Yes!", and the wild beast of a preacher man faded away into the bushes of Roberto Pateo's distant memory, (lol). And now, after even many years of drifting with the wind of every doctrine and religion that ever came along, one may still find Roberto Pateo roaming around on internet forum boards, jumping out of the bushes and screaming "the Gospel" at passersby, believing that a simple assent, just saying "yes", is the same as "true belief", even though he denies that the teachings of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts apply to himself, and even though he denies that most of the New Testament, and the admonishments and commandments contained therein, apply to himself: for instead he prefers in the face of all the scripture that refutes his dogma to continuing believing that because he merely assented, and said that one little word, "Yes!", it equates to a lifelong walk of "true belief" according to the scripture, and therefore that he is eternally "saved" from the eternal conscious torment of the fiery flames of the everlasting hellfire of the wild beast of the preacher man from the tumbleweeds and thorn-bushes of his faded memory.
Moreover, at the same time, and all of the time, he continues to this day to pride himself in being "chief of sinners", and apparently has no clue that Paul said those words because he had persecuted the congregation of Elohim, for Paul says, "I thank him that enabled me, even Messiah Yeshua our Master, for that he counted me faithful, appointing me to his service; though I was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: howbeit I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief; and the grace of our Master abounded exceedingly with faith and love which is in Messiah Yeshua. Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Messiah Yeshua came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief, Messiah Yeshua might show forth all his long-suffering, for an example of them that should thereafter believe on him unto life eternal."
So while the grace of Elohim dramatically changed Paul, who calls himself chief of sinners, and who makes of himself an example of how the Word of Elohim can bring about true redemption, salvation, and a dramatic and permanent metamorphosis out from the clutches of darkness and into the brilliant white light of Messiah: apparently the grace of Elohim has had no affect whatsoever on Roberto Pateo. Nope, Roberto Pateo intends to be chief of sinners until the day he and his carcass die. :chuckle:
Disclaimer: any similarity in the names of this story to a real person is purely intentional.
And in Him is “doing the will of my Father who is in heaven”...its not just Lord! Lord!
To all who were saved by the appropriate application of the Law by the Law Giver...the message remains...now go and sin no more...
- Status