Jesus, Paul and the Law

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clefty

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If you believed Paul you would quote Paul. Paul said that the law made him sin, Romans 7:7-12.

Here is Paul:


“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”

Romans 3:31 a letter to the Romans but you knew that and reject it...

Please recall Acts 15 where James concludes these gentiles who do NOT reject would continue to hear Moses read every Sabbath in the synagogues...and so James does not see the Law as abolished but as it always was...a tool to point to Him the Law Giver...as he knew that faith without works is dead...which works?...go hear Moses every Sabbath...
 

Robert Pate

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If you believed Paul you would quote much more of him, as I do, (and many others here), and you would stop cherry picking from his writings and taking from them only those things which you think support your religion after you have ripped them out of their contexts. And yes, you do serve a religion, the religion of the supreme Robert Pate who tells God which passages and verses are allowed and which are abolished in the mind of Robert Pate and the Robert Pate religion to end all religions, (lol).

Once upon a little space in time a long time ago there was a certain critter named Roberto Pateo, and as he walked along his merry way a fiery hellfire wild man of a preacher jumped out of the bushes and screamed "the Gospel" at him, saying, "God died for your sins, just belieeeeve it, and confesssss it, and all of the righteousness of God will automatically be imputed unto you: and you therefore shall be "saved" for all eternity from the fiery everlasting hellfire of Gehenna! Do you "belieeeeve"? Just assent, all you need to do is say yessss!" So Roberto Pateo, scared out of his wits, and his knees knocking like Belshazzar, quickly assented, for it was the easy and fast thing to do, and he answered, "Yes!", and the wild beast of a preacher man faded away into the bushes of Roberto Pateo's distant memory, (lol). And now, after even many years of drifting with the wind of every doctrine and religion that ever came along, one may still find Roberto Pateo roaming around on internet forum boards, jumping out of the bushes and screaming "the Gospel" at passersby, believing that a simple assent, just saying "yes", is the same as "true belief", even though he denies that the teachings of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts apply to himself, and even though he denies that most of the New Testament, and the admonishments and commandments contained therein, apply to himself: for instead he prefers in the face of all the scripture that refutes his dogma to continuing believing that because he merely assented, and said that one little word, "Yes!", it equates to a lifelong walk of "true belief" according to the scripture, and therefore that he is eternally "saved" from the eternal conscious torment of the fiery flames of the everlasting hellfire of the wild beast of the preacher man from the tumbleweeds and thorn-bushes of his faded memory.

Moreover, at the same time, and all of the time, he continues to this day to pride himself in being "chief of sinners", and apparently has no clue that Paul said those words because he had persecuted the congregation of Elohim, for Paul says, "I thank him that enabled me, even Messiah Yeshua our Master, for that he counted me faithful, appointing me to his service; though I was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: howbeit I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief; and the grace of our Master abounded exceedingly with faith and love which is in Messiah Yeshua. Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Messiah Yeshua came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief, Messiah Yeshua might show forth all his long-suffering, for an example of them that should thereafter believe on him unto life eternal."

So while the grace of Elohim dramatically changed Paul, who calls himself chief of sinners, and who makes of himself an example of how the Word of Elohim can bring about true redemption, salvation, and a dramatic and permanent metamorphosis out from the clutches of darkness and into the brilliant white light of Messiah: apparently the grace of Elohim has had no affect whatsoever on Roberto Pateo. Nope, Roberto Pateo intends to be chief of sinners until the day he and his carcass die. :chuckle:

Disclaimer: any similarity in the names of this story to a real person is purely intentional.


A lot of nothing but hot air. Paul lived his life before God as a sinner, see Romans 7. If you are one of these you need the law, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
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Here is Paul:


“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”

Romans 3:31 a letter to the Romans but you knew that and reject it...

Please recall Acts 15 where James concludes these gentiles who do NOT reject would continue to hear Moses read every Sabbath in the synagogues...and so James does not see the Law as abolished but as it always was...a tool to point to Him the Law Giver...as he knew that faith without works is dead...which works?...go hear Moses every Sabbath...


You and James have a lot in common. You are both Judaizers.
 

daqq

Well-known member
A lot of nothing but hot air. Paul lived his life before God as a sinner, see Romans 7. If you are one of these you need the law, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.

Lol, Romans 7 explains how to use the Torah of sin to put to death those murderers, fornicators, and sinners that dwell in your flesh, (1Tim 1:9-10), for to "use the law lawfully" (1Tim 1:8, which you left out, lol), is to use it only against yourself. So Paul tells you, in the very same passage which you reference in support of your faulty understanding, how to actually mortify your own members which are upon your own earth or land, (the "unruly members" of your own house-body-temple which is no more your own when you enter into the faith in Messiah). He even tells you that it is by way of the awesome Testimony of the Messiah, which is full of grace, and by that one can know that the Torah of Elohim is the Torah of Horeb the mountain of Elohim, and is the Torah of the mind and of above. Moreover Paul plainly states in the final verse of the chapter, (Rom 7:25 KJV), that he serves both of them: he serves the Torah of Elohim with the mind, (which is of Horeb and of above), and the Torah of sin against the flesh, (which is of Sinai and of below). Is it that you cannot comprehend what you read or do you just ignore what you do not wish to accept into your doctrine? You have no excuse since I know this has also already been explained in past discussions.
 

Robert Pate

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There are two different ways to live the Christian life.

Living by the commandments of Jesus, which is a life of legalism and law keeping. This life will cause you to become a hypocrite simply because no one can keep the commandments. This is why Paul wrote "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

The other way to live is to live by the Spirit of Jesus. To live according to the Spirit is to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel God already sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If God already sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" then I don't have to struggle to try and make myself better. I can remain a sinner saved by grace. Paul lived his life before God as a sinner, Romans 7:13-25. Because he was a sinner, Romans 3:23. God knows what you are. You might fool some with your piety, but you can't fool God.
 

clefty

New member
There are two different ways to live the Christian life.

Living by the commandments of Jesus, which is a life of legalism and law keeping. This life will cause you to become a hypocrite simply because no one can keep the commandments. This is why Paul wrote "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

The other way to live is to live by the Spirit of Jesus. To live according to the Spirit is to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel God already sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If God already sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" then I don't have to struggle to try and make myself better. I can remain a sinner saved by grace. Paul lived his life before God as a sinner, Romans 7:13-25. Because he was a sinner, Romans 3:23. God knows what you are. You might fool some with your piety, but you can't fool God.

We aren’t here to fool Him

Just not to lead others away from Him His way...

Because of what He did we want to do as He did...and because He expects us to...if we love Him
 

Robert Pate

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We aren’t here to fool Him

Just not to lead others away from Him His way...

Because of what He did we want to do as He did...and because He expects us to...if we love Him


Telling people to be like Jesus is not preaching the Gospel.
 

clefty

New member
Telling people to be like Jesus is not preaching the Gospel.

He only gave the gospel commission to those obedient to His Way...

Plenty of other gospels out there and from wolves in sheep clothing...or from the least in the kingdom for teaching otherwise...
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
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He only gave the gospel commission to those obedient to His Way...

Plenty of other gospels out there and from wolves in sheep clothing...or from the least in the kingdom for teaching otherwise...

There is only one Gospel. It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
 

clefty

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There is only one Gospel.
teaching something different than what was taught is another gospel...yours is exactly that...yours is the “no need to change lifestyle” or the “go and sin some more” gospel...as if there were no expectations to be more like Him not less



It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5
yup a free gift that once received is desired to apply...faith first then works in gratitude ...you get your medicine and don’t use it...don’t even open the bottle

and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

How can you be reconciled if you don’t even live as He does He goes X you go Y...He does X you do Y...if you love me He instructed keep my commandments...that is the ministry see? Not a one time deal...it is on going the rest of your faith walk IN Him...His faith walk...not what you did before
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
teaching something different than what was taught is another gospel...yours is exactly that...yours is the “no need to change lifestyle” or the “go and sin some more” gospel...as if there were no expectations to be more like Him not less



yup a free gift that once received is desired to apply...faith first then works in gratitude ...you get your medicine and don’t use it...don’t even open the bottle



How can you be reconciled if you don’t even live as He does He goes X you go Y...He does X you do Y...if you love me He instructed keep my commandments...that is the ministry see? Not a one time deal...it is on going the rest of your faith walk IN Him...His faith walk...not what you did before


Trying to be like Jesus by keeping the commandments is the exact thing that Paul taught against. The law will not reconcile you to God. Jesus and Jesus alone is the reconciler, Romans 3:26. You are as religious as a Pharisee.
 

clefty

New member
Trying to be like Jesus by keeping the commandments is the exact thing that Paul taught against. The law will not reconcile you to God. Jesus and Jesus alone is the reconciler, Romans 3:26. You are as religious as a Pharisee.

Keep reading

“Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.”
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Keep reading

“Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.”


The only way that anyone can uphold the law is by being "In Christ". When God sees you "In Christ" he sees you as perfect and complete "In Christ".

Trying to obey the commandments will put you under the law. To be under the law means that you will be judged by the law and condemned because you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.
 

clefty

New member
The only way that anyone can uphold the law is by being "In Christ". When God sees you "In Christ" he sees you as perfect and complete "In Christ".
if there is no more law it really doesnt matter how God sees us does it? In Christ around Christ far away from Christ...no matter...without law there is no sin pointed out...live lawlessly...as you wish

Funny He didnt think to remove the Law prior His having to sacrifice and risk losing His Son...

Trying to obey the commandments will put you under the law.
ummmm...so like when you ride a plane...there is no more gravitational law right? HA

To be under the law means that you will be judged by the law and condemned because you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.

Paul doesnt congratulate us for a race finished when we believe he encourages us to finish the race...persevere til the end...Judgement day awaits...but well with no Law I guess it was abolished...HA

Faith does NOT nullify the Law...we uphold it...

It upholds me...laws of grafting and adoption and inheritance all part of it
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
You remind me of another group of christians who desperately need the law abolished...

http://www.gaychristian101.com/Christians-Under-Law.html

The too insist it is just faith in Him alone...

Homosexuality is an unfortunate condition. I have a brother inlaw that is a homosexual. My wife says that he was born that way. We are all born sinners, with many different inperfections, some of which we inherit from our parents. Is it possible to be a homosexual and be saved? We may be surprised to see who is in heaven.
 

clefty

New member
Homosexuality is an unfortunate condition. I have a brother inlaw that is a homosexual. My wife says that he was born that way. We are all born sinners, with many different inperfections, some of which we inherit from our parents. Is it possible to be a homosexual and be saved? We may be surprised to see who is in heaven.

There is more:

http://www.gaychristian101.com/Torah-Observance.html

Good thing there is no more law in the NT as the cross abolished it right?

Homos can homo as its not even addressed in the NT...and if it is well...nevermind...its all abolished...do whatever...teach whatever...exemplify whatever...lead wherever...
 

clefty

New member
They may be gay, but they have the truth concerning the law. It has been abolished for the Christian.

“Go and sin no more” means exactly that...and was said to not a gay...and the Law is needed to point how...

Born gay eh? Well I was born to kill...steal...lie...fornicate...do I still get to after I am dead to self and alive in Him?

Or do I wish to give up those skills and talents for a better reward?
 

clefty

New member
The only way that anyone can uphold the law is by being "In Christ". When God sees you "In Christ" he sees you as perfect and complete "In Christ".

Trying to obey the commandments will put you under the law. To be under the law means that you will be judged by the law and condemned because you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.

Define what sin is? Now define it without the law...

Perhaps, as the following link valiantly attempts to portray, sin is merely a misunderstanding of teachings...and “to love one another” fulfills the law and even allows the marriage of gays because they love each other...

https://www.gaychurch.org/homosexuality-and-the-bible/the-bible-christianity-and-homosexuality/

He uses all the same texts you do...the same way too...hmmm...for the same reason?
 
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