KingdomRose
New member
And just how did YHWH "hover over [an eagle's] young, spreading out his wings," etc.? Didn't He do that through Jesus? Jesus imitated his Father in all things, but that didn't make him his Father.
Jesus is YHWH
- Thread starter Evil.Eye.<(I)>
- Start date
And just how did YHWH "hover over [an eagle's] young, spreading out his wings," etc.? Didn't He do that through Jesus? Jesus imitated his Father in all things, but that didn't make him his Father.
KingdomRose
New member
Jesus said that to see him is to see the Father because he imitated the Father so closely. He was the exact representation of the Father---not the Father Himself.
"Jesus answered and was saying to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of himself, unless it is something he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner." (John 5:19, NASB)
"And he is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of his power. When he had made purification of sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high." (Hebrews 1:3, NASB)
Notice how you had to add to scripture to make it say what you believe?
How about this?
Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
John 10:30 I and My Father are one.”
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Matthew 1:23 "Behold! The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call Him Immanuel" (which means, "God with us").
keypurr
Well-known member
The express image of a spirit would be a spirit. A very special spirit for it contained the fullness of its creator. The express image is only used to discribe the Son used at the creation. The spirit son that was SENT to dwell in Jesus.
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keypurr
Well-known member
Your overlooking the fact that God is a spirit and his express image is also a spirit. So the human body of Jesus is not the express image of the Father. Jesus is the body prepared to hold the powerful spirit son of the most high.
I do not rewrite the scriptures I just do not assume that everything I was taught is true. I try not to assume anything. You do.
Understand that I have a great love for My God AND my Lord. To me there is only one true God, the Father. I see the Spirit son as God's first creation and he was given the power of his creator. I know you do not understand fully why I think that but I have good reasons to do so. I have never been more content with my faith as I am now.
Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
Spirit can't be seen... now for the definition of the word "image"...
a physical likeness or representation of a person, animal, or thing, photographed, painted, sculptured, or otherwise made visible.
So... um... have you reconsidered this verse yet?
John 6:46
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
And... again...
Hebrews 1:3
3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
keypurr
Well-known member
You just do not see it.
Man is made in the image of God in what way? The ability to think and act in a rational manner.
But the EXPRESS IMAGE is much more than that. This image has been given the fullness of its creator. God used this image to create the Universe. This image went into Jesus at his anointing. This image became flesh and went to the cross for us. Jesus was born but the true Son of God was sent, for he was in heaven with his Father before he came to us.
Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
I'm so happy that you finally believe in the Trinity !!!
keypurr
Well-known member
Greetings again Evil.Eye,
Nevertheless I am not sure that I want to be involved in a wide-ranging discussion on every verse that Trinitarians raise, and then to counter this with other verses that seem to speak against the Trinity. Why is it necessary to repeat the same arguments that have been aired in other threads? For example in your recent Post, do you really think that the following is convincing to a non-Trinitarian?
Next you speak of Philippians 2 and this could be considered at length, but my understanding is that this speaks of Jesus’ disposition of mind when he was growing and during his ministry and not his incarnation. Also God has exalted Jesus and given him a name above every name, but when we bow to him it is to the glory of God the Father, not to the glory of “God the Son”. Here again is the continuation and development of the Yahweh Name. Posts #55 and #56 are similar to your “saviour” post.
John 17:6,11 (KJV): 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
What surprises me though is why Trinitarians quote John 10:30 in isolation, instead of considering Jesus’ answer to his accusers in John 10:31-36, which clearly teaches in a very detailed way that Jesus is claiming to be The Son of God. I have never read a satisfactory Trinitarian explanation of why the Judges were called Elohim, in conjunction with the bearing of this upon Jesus' answer to his accusers. Also verse 36 is the same as verse 30 in different words, that he is in unity with God His Father, and thus He is The Son of God.
Kind regards
Trevor
I appreciate your comments. Yes this subject needs a measured approach as we are dealing with an important subject, an attempt to understand the Scriptural teaching concerning God. As such we should treat this subject with reverence as it is Holy. I do not mind disagreement between ourselves, as I find that by this interaction we learn, sometimes a new perspective presented by the other, and sometimes from a better understanding of the Scriptures as we meditate and examine some of these.
Nevertheless I am not sure that I want to be involved in a wide-ranging discussion on every verse that Trinitarians raise, and then to counter this with other verses that seem to speak against the Trinity. Why is it necessary to repeat the same arguments that have been aired in other threads? For example in your recent Post, do you really think that the following is convincing to a non-Trinitarian?
This fits neatly into my understanding of the Yahweh Name being continuous and a development in and through our Lord Jesus Christ. God the Father is the Saviour in and through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Even the Name Jesus combines the words Yahweh and Saviour.
Next you speak of Philippians 2 and this could be considered at length, but my understanding is that this speaks of Jesus’ disposition of mind when he was growing and during his ministry and not his incarnation. Also God has exalted Jesus and given him a name above every name, but when we bow to him it is to the glory of God the Father, not to the glory of “God the Son”. Here again is the continuation and development of the Yahweh Name. Posts #55 and #56 are similar to your “saviour” post.
Again this fits in neatly with the Yahweh Name being continuous and developing. The unity revealed between Jesus and His Father is to be shared with his disciples:
John 17:6,11 (KJV): 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
What surprises me though is why Trinitarians quote John 10:30 in isolation, instead of considering Jesus’ answer to his accusers in John 10:31-36, which clearly teaches in a very detailed way that Jesus is claiming to be The Son of God. I have never read a satisfactory Trinitarian explanation of why the Judges were called Elohim, in conjunction with the bearing of this upon Jesus' answer to his accusers. Also verse 36 is the same as verse 30 in different words, that he is in unity with God His Father, and thus He is The Son of God.
Kind regards
Trevor
keypurr
Well-known member
KingdomRose
New member
Just how did I "add to scripture" to make it come out the way I wanted? You make offensive statements without backing up what you are saying, by clearly showing how I have added to scripture. Not very honest of you. I have explained what "I and my Father are one" means. How about checking out John 17:20-23? It clearly shows that even the disciples could be "one" with Jesus and with God. Does that make THEM God?
KingdomRose
New member
Poor man. You have such a shallow understanding of the scriptures. Haven't you learned yet what "mighty god" means in Isaiah? It is translated from "El Gibbohr," and refers to any mighty, powerful individual (there are no capital letters in Hebrew). It is to be contrasted with "El Shaddai," which is translated Almighty God. Only YHWH is referred to as Almighty God. Any powerful person can be referred to as "mighty god." Human judges and angels are called "gods" in the Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus is an "everlasting father" in that he is responsible for eternal life to his "children," mankind.
Now, why would you think that Matthew 1:23 is saying that God Himself is here on the earth? "God with us" means merely that God is showing His concern for us by sending His Son. He is "with" us in that sense. His Son represents Him and explains to mankind what his Father wants.
Greetings KingdomRose,
Kind regards
Trevor
I have appreciated your comments in this thread and agree with most of what you have stated. The above Post caught my attention for another reason. Although you sometimes use YHWH, you seem to prefer using Jehovah. You also selected two translations that use Jehovah, in these verses at least. I assume that you may have been very careful to select these two that use "Jehovah". Could I ask a question, without side-tracking this thread. I assume you are a JW. The question is: Is it acceptable in your meetings to use Yahweh instead of Jehovah, and is this more or less recognized as closer to the spelling of the YHWH Name? I notice in a recent JW publication that they do suggest Yahweh as being most probably more correct, and in the same chapter mention Rotherham’s translation which, although they do not mention this, has a large section in supporting of Yahweh instead of Jehovah, and Rotherham consistently uses Yahweh in his translation.
Kind regards
Trevor
glorydaz
Well-known member
Boy, you JW's pack some pretty large chunks of dung, don't ya? So good with the names, but you have to explain away Immanuel. Quite the piece of work. :nono:
glorydaz
Well-known member
Do you get the feeling you're surrounded by a howling pack of demons? Keep your sword and shield handy.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Jesus Christ was certainly capable of answering their questions directly though they had to ask twice.
John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
"I am he" ie, I am who? Jesus of Nazareth.
oatmeal
Well-known member
He is the Governor, ruler, that will come out of Juda to rule God's people.
Matthew 2:6
And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
He is the son of the Lord.
Matthew 2:15
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Matthew 2:6
And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
He is the son of the Lord.
Matthew 2:15
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Hi Trevor,
It boils down to atonement. If the blood of God didn't seal mankind unto Salvation... we are all sunk.
I will ask this one matter of you and if you answer it satisfactory... I'll tread lightly... otherwise... I'll lean into in and move forward at a brisk pace.
Do you believe salvation is a free gift that is totally provided upon belief. Not a "life process", but a promise to be claimed?